Shebrew in the City
Shebrew in the City is a podcast exploring all things Jewish. Combining interviews and informational episodes, join Nicole Kelly as she discusses her journey with motherhood, spirituality, and everything from Hanukkah to the Holocaust. Giving a voice to modern Jews and spreading love and joy, whether you're Jewish, Jew-ish, or not anything resembling Jewish at all, there's something here for everyone.
Shebrew in the City
"Windy City" - An Interview with Courtney Cohen, owner of Da Shayna Punims
Ever felt the tug to make something you can’t find on the shelf? We sit down with attorney and mom-creator Courtney Cohen, whose Florida-to-Chicago journey led her to build a joyful Jewish lifestyle brand from a single sticker into a growing catalog of hats, tees, totes, and more. The throughline is Jewish joy—captured in weekly challah, kids who treat stickers like art supplies, and designs that turn bagels and Yiddish into everyday style.
Courtney walks us through her unconventional path: eight years in PR, a leap to law, then the itch to create fun, modern Judaica, Da Shayna Punims, that isn’t only for holidays or display cases. She shares how starting without a formal business plan forced fast learning, why bringing embroidery and printing in-house changed quality and timelines, and how she prototypes obsessively—auditioning fonts, testing placements, and refining until the piece feels right. We talk candidly about marketing in the age of algorithms, from TikTok’s vibrant Jewish corners to the bizarre reality of bots dropping geopolitics into soup videos, and why focusing on real community beats chasing viral spikes.
The conversation widens into representation and culture: the promise and pitfalls of Hanukkah movies, choosing Jewish actors for Jewish stories, and the simple rituals that anchor identity when the world feels loud. Courtney’s big dream? Thoughtful expansion—dishware with a Kate Spade vibe, espresso cups with bagel wit, and traveling to markets like Jewish Joy Con to meet the people who wear and gift her work. Along the way, you’ll hear lightning-round favorites, from beloved Yiddish words to the holiday that makes everything feel cozy.
If you care about creative entrepreneurship, Jewish small business, and the craft behind products that make daily life brighter, this one’s for you. Listen, share with a friend who loves bagels and good fonts, and tell us: what does Jewish joy look like in your home? Subscribe, rate, and leave a review to help more curious listeners find the show.
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So we are back, and there are some updates and things going on I just wanted to let you know about. We are a little behind with the interviews I've recorded because if you follow me on Instagram, you'll know I broke my arm and had to have surgery the week of Thanksgiving. But I have a new Instagram page. It's Today in Holocaust History, which focuses on history each day of the year to show that the Holocaust was not just a one-time event. It's something that was a rollout consistently for a very long time. I also have some exciting interviews coming up, so please be sure to subscribe. Uh, and uh that way you'll be able to find out when the new interviews come out. And if you don't follow me on Instagram, please do. And if you do, please comment. Please send me messages. I love to hear from people. And if you think that you'd be a good guest, please reach out as well. I'm always looking for interesting people to talk to. Hello, this is Nicole Kelly, and this is She brew in the City, and this is my first episode of what I think we're gonna be calling season three because we're starting right after Rosh Hashanah. So Shannata Va to everybody listening, though I think this episode's gonna technically be coming out over Yom Kippur, so I hope you also had an easy fast if you were fasting. Today I am sitting down with Courtney Cohen, and we're gonna be talking about being moms and owning businesses and hopefully some other some other fun stuff as well. How are you doing this morning, Courtney?
Courtney Cohen:I am good, Shana Tova. Hope you had a good new year. Yeah, my daughters are this morning, they were like, oh, Rosh Hashanah is over now. Like, yeah, that maybe like technically. But like this, next week's even more fun. Um but yeah, we're having a it's been a good start to the new year so far here.
Nicole Kelly:Good. We had a big group of people over after the first night, which was really fun. My daughter was kind of holding court and got to see some of her friends, so she was very excited. Which so that was great. Um, after a long day at synagogue. So um I usually like to start off by talking about people's backgrounds, just so everyone kind of has an idea of where they're coming from. If we talk about their Jewish journey a little bit. So can you tell me where you're originally from and what your Jewish background is like, how you grew up, if you were religious, if you had a bot mitzvah, all that good fun stuff that I love.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, no, so I am from Florida, but not an area of Florida that there's like a lot large Jewish population. So I'm from it's clewporchy, um, which is about like I think it's it's like 45 minutes north of Tampa on the west coast of Florida. Um grew up in uh Pascoe County, um, which makes which you might have heard of, it makes news for other reasons. Other reasons? Um yeah, not um if uh people like to say if you've seen the show Cops, you probably seen New Parchie. Um, but so there I belong to synagogue. Um my parents still live there and they still belong. It's um the JCC of West Pasco. It's called Congressation Beth Tephila. And I was pretty I wasn't like religious growing up in terms of we went to temple a lot. We went on Fridays, we went to Sunday school. It wasn't my husband is from like the northern suburbs of Chicago, so he is a very different Jewish upbringing than I had in Florida. Like, um, they you know, he went to religious school like multiple times a week, um, you know, did camps and things like that, and that you know, so many there is this whole like Jewish summer camp culture, and I that like wasn't a thing where I grew up. Um, it wasn't until like I was older and even like out of college and really ri realize that that was like an experience that a lot of like Jewish kids have, and I don't know if it's just because I was like from Florida or what, I'm not sure.
Nicole Kelly:It's it is definitely a geographical thing because I'm from LA and there was like a JCC camp, which unfortunately like burned down in one of those fun fires in California. So I went one summer to sleepaway camp, but I really did like you know non-religious day camp. And since moving to New York, everyone's like, Oh yeah, you go away for like the whole summer, and it's that's not a thing in certain places, it's a very east coast and sometimes Midwest thing. Like I know there's a famous one in Michigan.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, yeah. We went to like day camp, yeah, or like sports camp or like something to like like childcare, essentially, you know, like well before we were old enough to like stay home. And I think what I did one thing, and I can't remember exactly what it was. It was with young Judea, and it was I think it was like a weekend or like three days, it or maybe maybe a week. I I don't rem like I remember going to something, but it definitely wasn't like an all like summer thing. Um, and then so I keep and so my dad he always kept kosher growing up and like his family did, and my mom's did not. Um, and then so he's always like kept kosher my whole life. My mom's not, so we kind of have that that mix growing up. I keep kosher now, but that was just like a choice I made. Like as an like an adult, it wasn't super we didn't stress that like growing up, it was some of us kept kosher and some of us didn't, it wasn't like a big thing. Um but I did all the things, you know, we celebrate the holidays, I was brought mats at a school on Passover, and I was told that I was had to answer what I was eating. Um and I grew up uh our temple was more conservative. Um, and now where we belong in Chicago is more reformed, which has been an interesting experience. Yeah. In what way? I love it. It's it's I mean, Gorda Temple, you know, I and even when I go like for services, I did Zoom for my temple back home and got to see some of the same people. You know, someone on the Bima was my like Hebrew school teacher, so it's fun to still like see them, but it's definitely a different vibe and a reform, which I like. It was uh but the first time we went, it was definitely um an interesting experience because it wasn't something I was used to, but we like it. And now the girls, um, so I have three kids, two girls and a boy. And the the youngest, he is almost nine months, so he doesn't go to Sunday school yet. But the girls they just started a few weeks ago and they're loving it. Although my four-year-old, she just has like the time of her life. They like make hala and they like dance, and I'm like, oh, okay, you're yeah, it's very just fun.
Nicole Kelly:We have had um we joined a reform synagogue uh after my daughter was born, which is very different than the experience I had because I went to like a very non-fun conservative experience where we went twice a week and um sometimes on Sundays, and it was like, you know, the little kid stuff was very limited. Granted, this was the 90s, and I think things have changed, but like from the time she was little, there's like lots of programming with the kids. Granted, this is we call it like a mega synagogue. There's like 2,500 families. Okay.
Courtney Cohen:So um but yeah, ours is ours is I think I mean there's a lot in Chicago, but it definitely is a large one. Yeah, there's a lot of people. Yeah, I think they just like honey school. I was like, oh my god. I texted my husband, I was like, there's so many kids here.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, it's definitely a different experience than I had growing up. So um I I get the whole like it's fun thing since she was like three months old. We've been going and doing all that.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, and I'm glad that they like I remember like sometimes going to temple, you know, like thinking back like, oh, I didn't really want to go. And I'm sure they'll get to that point where you know, maybe they don't want to go. But I'm glad right now that they are enjoying it and having like fun. Yeah, so it's it's working out so far.
Nicole Kelly:So, did you have a bot mitzvah?
Courtney Cohen:Oh, yes, we kind of like jumped, we kind of like jumped in. Sorry, no, I forgot. No, you did ask that. I did have a bot mitzvah. Okay. Um, myself and all of my siblings. I'm one of four. We all had bot mitzvahs. Um, mine was a sock hop theme.
Nicole Kelly:Stop, mine was 50s theme too. Yeah, I'm not really sure why. My theme was 50s as well. I we like we literally wore socks, but that was something that everybody did, um, regardless of the theme. But it was like 50s themed, and each of the tables was like a 50s song, and I don't know if we had something similar.
Courtney Cohen:And I still have, you know, like the shirt that you make. Um, but thinking back, I have no idea why I picked that theme. I I think we had McMilkshake, so maybe it was like, but I was like, I have no idea. Like my brother's was sports themes, like the different teams, and I'm like, okay, that makes sense, but I don't I don't remember like why why that was it. But it was fun. I mean, you know, you still have the pictures and stuff, so it was Yes.
Nicole Kelly:I definitely look back uh whenever I go home. My mom has like all the pictures. I love doing that.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, I remember practicing for my haftora, like it was when we still had like the CD players with the headphones that plugged in, and I would bring it over the summer to like the summer place I went to, and I would like when it was like resting time, I would like listen to my cassette tape. I might be older than you because I definitely practice, but it was more you know, they said you want a CD or the rabbi made it. Someone gave it to me on a CD and I was like listening to it like during the middle of the summer.
Nicole Kelly:But oh no, I got a cassette, like I was saying, I got a cassette tape because I might be a little bit older than you, so it was uh it was a fun, fun cassette tape experience, and I got like a little book. Um, so we grew up in Florida. Did you go to college in Florida?
Courtney Cohen:No, I went to college in Ohio. I went to Ohio University in Athens, and then from Athens, I moved to Chicago in 2012.
Nicole Kelly:Okay.
Courtney Cohen:And I've been here ever since. I moved to like Evanston, I lived there for like six-ish months, and then I moved to Chicago, like the city, and that's where I've been since that's where you've been.
Nicole Kelly:Awesome, and that's where you met your husband and started your family.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, yeah. So we met where we both worked, and then yeah, so all the kids, yeah, they're all born here. So that's part of like to Shane O Punham's is the duh is part of like the like an ode to Chicago, I guess. So it's like duh bears. Yes. And so I took that because I wanted because it's important because it's like where I started the company and where the kids are born. And I started it before my son was born, and my dad would always call us Shane Upnum growing up, and so I call them that, and then um, so that's so the Chicago I sort of like tied that into like the business, like as well, because it's sort of like part of our story. Um, but yeah, we've been here, met here, got married here, all that jazz.
Nicole Kelly:You are full Chicago now.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, we are here, and you know, we there you know, were times we're like, oh maybe we should move, and like at one point I thought maybe you'd move back to Florida, um, but not currently what with what's happening.
Nicole Kelly:There's a lot happening in Florida, yeah. Florida's a very divisive place. Yes. So talk to me a little bit about your professional background prior to starting De Shana Punham's.
Courtney Cohen:Sure. So I um was in PR and communications for I think it was about eight years, and then in started in 2012, and around 2015, I was like, I should just go back to law school. So I did that.
Nicole Kelly:Easy, easy thing to do, just you know.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, just because um, I mean, I always loved school. I always loved going to school, I always loved, you know, reading. I still love to read all of that. And then in 20 I was around 2020, 2021, sometime around there, I um worked at an immigration nonprofit called Children's Legal Center, which is um like a legal like nonprofit to help um on certain types of immigration cases. And then from I worked there for a year two years, a year and a half, and then now I currently work um still as an attorney at the state's attorney's office um in the child protection division. Okay. So it's a little different than what I do to Shane Putnams, but um look, careers transition.
Nicole Kelly:I've made like three, so I totally get it.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, and so it's still I still do to Shana Punham's, you know, part-time. The hope is that you know one time one day I'll be able to do it full time, but it is a lot, you know, working, doing that, and then raising children as yes, you know. So it's just even even at night, I'll go and I'm like, okay, I need to do some stuff, and just too tired. Yeah, fall asleep, and I'm like, I had all these things I need to do, and they didn't get done, and you just kind of try I'm trying to be better at like giving cutting myself some slack. It'd be like sometimes there's just not enough time.
Nicole Kelly:So no, I totally get it. I feel like I see these content creators, and I was like, I have all these ideas, and my my sister's like, a lot of these people do not run businesses and have children, so they just create content all day, and that's what they do, and it's fine and easy.
Courtney Cohen:I know, I see the people who like who make the memes that are like someone tell the content creator, like the 24-year-old content creators, like it's not the same 24 hours.
Nicole Kelly:Like no, it's not. My I am just hard.
Courtney Cohen:I know I do a lot of like content stuff like on the train to work, because it's like 30 minutes that I can sit and like do that. So a lot of times that's when I do it, or I'll like edit pictures on the train and like just kind of do it when you can.
Nicole Kelly:But you have to find the time where you can get it. I get it, I totally get it. I've I'm making this.
Courtney Cohen:It doesn't help when you're like slapping the keyboard and I'm trying to use the keyboard, so but that's all right.
Nicole Kelly:I oh I know. The whole thing, I want to help is my daughter's thing, is she wants to help, and now she wants her own computer, which I don't know what she do with it.
Courtney Cohen:Oh, I know. And like they wanna, they'll like they'll model for me, which is great. They'll help. They love to like weed the vinyl that comes out of the cricket, they love to do that. Um, but yeah, but sometimes it is you're just like, I just need you not to put your hands.
Nicole Kelly:Not to not to put your hands, yeah. No, I get how so you have the the baby and then how old are the girls? What was that? Sorry. You have the baby and how old are the girls?
Courtney Cohen:Um, six, four, and then about nine months. So they're it vary in the like, I want to help.
Nicole Kelly:Yes, I have a four-year-old. Yeah, no, it's I love it, and I try to remind myself that that's not always going to be the case. And someday she's she's already starting to close her door, which we do not close doors, but she's like been closing her door to play, and I'm like, we don't do that. So at some point that door will close for like a decade, and I won't be able to do that.
Courtney Cohen:I've gotten a few of those six-year-old or a four-year-old the other day, she told me she's like, I'm very mad at you right now. Or I'm not no, she said, I'm not happy with you.
Nicole Kelly:I was like, You're like, Great. I don't know what to do with that. Yeah, my daughter says these things. Her new thing is she tries to get us to do things quickly. She says, Chop chop.
Courtney Cohen:I don't know where she got this from. Oh, yeah, sometimes they say things, and I'm like, Do I even want to know?
Nicole Kelly:Yeah.
Courtney Cohen:How old is your daughter?
Nicole Kelly:She's four. She turned four back in May. So yeah, they're prime, prime sassiness.
Courtney Cohen:Oh, yeah, they're like, they're like teenagers.
Nicole Kelly:Yes.
Courtney Cohen:Oh, yeah, the two the two years are so bad. I'm like, have you met three and four-year-olds?
Nicole Kelly:Like, no, she was very, very sweet when she was two years old. Um she's got much sassier. So we're working at a non-profit. What kind of sparked the idea to create this company and what was the catalyst behind this? Because it's always like a big jump from idea to creation. So, what started the idea and what was that big jump?
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, I think um, and I hear this, I feel like, from a lot of Jewish business owners, is just that the lack of stuff for Jewish people, and I will say, you know, like going into you know, Target or whatever store, you know, big box store in the holidays, or any store really, and just really not seeing enough like stuff, or seeing like matzah at every holiday. Yes. Like aisle or end cap. Although at Jewel the other day, the end cap there was no matza. And I was I don't know if that was an accident or what, but I was like, there's no matzo on this end cap. Um, and I there was potato pancakes, but I'll give them a pass because potato pancakes are always delicious. Yes. Um, but I think it was that, and then just wanting to create more like fun things that wasn't because there is because I feel like a lot of like there's some like Judaica stuff, but it's more of like I don't know if fancy is the right word, but um traditional, maybe I get what you mean. Yeah, like menoras and mazuzas, and I mean there are wonderful, amazing creators making like ceramic menorahs. Oh, there's one that I'm obsessed with, and I forget. I'll have to look she's on TikTok, and I forget the name of her page at the moment, but she makes and she's got an Etsy shop and she makes these like ceramic menoras and mazuzas, and they're gorgeous and stuff like that. But I so I wanted to create more like everyday things, I guess.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, like something you can just throw on, and you're not yeah, I don't know.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, like like t-shirts and hats, and also stuff it's just I feel like half the stuff is just stuff that like I would want to wear. And so I was like, this is fun, I would like this, and so I'm just like okay, like let's do it. And I I don't remember what the I was like okay, I should just do it, but I think I started with like a sticker, and so I started small, and so I think it was just like okay, let's make this, and that was like the first product, the iHeart Kugel sticker, because I was like, I do love Kuggle, and I I should turn this into something, um, and then it just kind of like went off from there. So I think it was just morning to create more like fun things because I feel like Jewish people, we should just get more fun things. Yeah, I think there's always get them, and so I wanted to help join the like businesses and creators that are helping make more fun things for like Jewish people, especially right now when a lot of things are not fun. It's a rough, it's a rough place.
Nicole Kelly:It's a hard, it's a hard time. It really is. I mean, the history of Jews, not so fun, not so not so fun. I recently unplugged this because I was doing a lot of a day in Jewish history on my regular Instagram. My husband kept saying, uh, just do a day in the Holocaust, Nicole, because that's most of what it is. So I just please follow uh my new page. You can find it on my Instagram uh bio, which I'm highlighting things that happened every day during the Holocaust, uh, because that's my background. Um, not not always fun. So I I appreciate the fun Jewish things.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, and I think too, I came, my Nana, um, well, and my grandpa technically, before um they passed away, and like before they retired, they had well a few companies, but one of them was called um Judaic Giraffe. So she, I think I come by it honestly, she had essentially the same sort of thing. They made, they printed t-shirts and made magnets. So kind of like the same. So I feel like it's sort of like a second generation of hers company.
Nicole Kelly:And I've yeah, what did what did that what is that name? The giraffes in Judaica, where did that come from?
Courtney Cohen:Um, I don't remember. I'm sure she's told me. I don't remember what the story behind like the naming was. Um I don't remember. It's a fun name.
Nicole Kelly:I love fun, I'm obsessed with naming companies. I'm very good at it. I'm in the back.
Courtney Cohen:Um, I'm sure my mom would remember it all. It also just could have been something that like maybe she liked giraffes, like it could have been something just as simple as that.
Nicole Kelly:But I might you know my sister and my daughter's favorite animal are giraffes, so that's why they ask. They love giraffes. So you start with the sticker, and what was kind of like I said, the catalyst from going from like this is something I want to do to like I'm full on gonna make this a company because there's a lot of steps into creating a real life adult company. So, what made You decide to go from like I'm just doing this to company?
Courtney Cohen:Um, you know, I think I sort of like jumped in and made this ticker. I think I started with an Etsy shop. And then I think I got a website. And honestly, I probably like, you know, I see sometimes like either articles or videos or, you know, content about like starting a business and like the things you're supposed to do. And like you're supposed to have like a business plan and all of these things. And I did not do that. I did not do that at all. I just kind of like jumped in and was like, I want to create these products and I'm gonna learn to do it as I go. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna register to be like, I forget what it like, an S-corp or whatever I'm registering. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nicole Kelly:We're an S-corp, the twins. Yeah, whatever it is.
Courtney Cohen:I'm like, I'm just gonna do this as I go. Um, and so it was more of like I just want to I focus more on the like creating products and that and just kind of like did the business of I probably maybe shouldn't have done it that way. I should have maybe have like come up with more of like a plan, but it is more of like learning as I go sort of thing. Um I think that's true of anything. If I'm doing it, it might as well do it. Um, and I'm trying to do more now, like more markets and things like that, and and learning how that stuff works. But yeah, I kind of just went in, just did it.
Nicole Kelly:Well, clearly you're you're doing something right if it's still if it's still operating. It is a lot of like I was saying, it's a lot of learning on the job, and I think Oh, yeah.
Courtney Cohen:And like, oh, I should have done that. Let me go do that now.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, a lot of things that we have are retroactive because we're like, oh, that happened, so maybe we should prevent that from happening.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, make a note so it doesn't happen again. Yeah.
Nicole Kelly:Exactly. So you said you really like the design process and want to do that. Walk me through the design process of your products.
Courtney Cohen:Um, so it definitely depends. I feel like with a lot of products, I get the product in my head and I like know in my head what I want it to look like, but then it's making it look like I want it to look like. So for like for really for any product, I mean I because I work with a lot of like I guess more like graphics and like fonts and stuff like that. So like for our like bagel daddy hat, I wanted we wanted to do one that was more giving like Barbie type of style, font, and then more like modern. And so I just go and I like in my head I can see it, but it takes and so then it's sort of like creating what I'm like the vision, I guess. Um, and so then I just like sit down, really, and I either draw it, like sometimes I draw like I have an idea, like I want to do something for Hanukkah. I really want to try to do some stuff, shirts like embroidered around like the collar, because I so those may look really cool or like just in different places, but so playing around so I was like drawing it out, and now I'm gonna have to sort of find like all the fonts, and I'll tell you, like, I will go through like sometimes like 50. I mean just font after font after font in style until I'm like, okay, that is what I'm looking for, and so it's kind of like creating the products like in my head, and then just doing just sort of like trial and error until it looks like I want I want it to look like basically, which is yeah, so um, but it it it's fun. I mean, and I joined because then once I find, you know, I'm like, okay, yeah, that's like you know, that's what I want it to look like. And then I do all of my when I first started, I didn't have the capability to do um like my own bags. I worked with a print shop here in Chicago who did our like Toad's Koch bag, and then my neighbor actually randomly has a screen printing shop, and so he was helping me with the hat, my hats for a while because he had like um like a very large embroidery machine, but now like I have that, so now I do like everything in-house, I guess. And I was doing all the designing, but it wasn't like I have a smaller embroidery machine, so I could do like shirts and stuff, but hats are just like a pain on that machine, and it was just like not I mean you could do it, and people do do it, it was just way too much a headache for me. Um, but so now that I've sort of like grown a little bit, I do everything like in-house, which is nice because then I can take like scrap fabric and like test out the designs and see like even like the sizing, like how long it is, how especially with hats, like there's some standards I feel like with design sizing, but it's not I feel like it doesn't always look you know, the standard doesn't necessarily mean like that's what it's gonna look like. So I do a lot of like trial and error, especially like embroidering or printing until I get it. So I don't want to put something out there if it's not what I feel it should be. Um, and so but it is nice. I can say I can sort of do it all now internally.
Nicole Kelly:Um, so I I think doing everything in-house is much easier, it's more cost effective, and you can control the aspects of that. I feel like I've talked to uh because I own a business, but we don't make a physical product. So I feel like there's so many more steps, and if you're in control of all of the steps, it's so much easier. And I'm such a control freak that if I owned a business where I made things, I'd I could not run a business out of this New York apartment. Um, but I feel like I'd be like, I want to control every aspect of this. It's something I'm working on is relinquishing control of things.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, or doing my best. I can just like do it like when I want to get them done. Yeah, you're able to control the timing. Well, yeah, and it's great. It's obviously like so helpful to have it was very helpful to have a neighbor across the street who could help me as I was like starting. Um, but there would be some times where I wanted to be like, are my hats done?
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. Um when you're working on someone else's timeline, yeah. When you're working on someone else's timeline, it can be kind of difficult and frustrating. So that makes sense. How big is this embroidery machine?
Courtney Cohen:It is, um, well, it's downstairs, but it is like I mean it's pretty wide. It's one of those, it's called, I think it's like a like a 10 needle. So if you see the big not the ones that like take up like the whole table. Okay. Like it's on wheels, it can move, so it's not like big, but it probably is like this wide, and it's pretty is it as tall as me? I'm probably taller than it. But it is like pretty, it's like a 10 needle, so it's a pretty like massive in terms of like the jump from like my table one that's like sitting right here.
Nicole Kelly:Gotcha.
Courtney Cohen:Um, but it's nice because it lets me do like, and it obviously moves faster than like my table. I mean, I still use this one because there are some things like I did some hats recently, um, and they wanted stuff on the back of the hat, which I hadn't done. And I tested on the bottom one, and it was driving me nuts. It like wasn't working, it wasn't lining up, it was I was like losing my mind. And so then I just came up here. So it's nice to still have this one, which I got on like Facebook Marketplace. And I was like, it it wasn't like I don't need to go buy this like brand new machine. I don't even know, I don't know if it's I might hate it, you know, I don't know if it's gonna work. Um, but so that I have that. So it's nice to have uh both, but I still I still use this one both.
Nicole Kelly:So if you could like equipment, you know, out the window, if you could create any product, if you had magical equipment to do whatever in your house, what would be kind of like your dream product for your company?
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, I was thinking about it. This was really hard when I was like thinking about it. I would love to do like dishware, I guess. And I can do coffee mugs. Like I make coffee mugs, like I have one right here that I just sitting right here, and I print those, but I would love to do like actual like designed dishware. Like in my head, it would be like a a collab with like a Kate Spade vibe. Like that is like like fun, like um, like I had an idea for um like um what am I like is my tracking thought? Oh, like an espresso cups, like a set of four with fun little like bagel related things on it, or like a like um stack of like brunch plates or something. Um and so I would love to have the capability design, because I could I'm sure there are machines that I could get to make them here, but I don't think it would be the same as like like printing on the plate versus like actually like creating it with that. And I don't know what that looks like, so I feel like if I could do that, I would love that's like bit in my head.
Nicole Kelly:That was one of the first things I've like thought of, but it's not hasn't been created at this point, not quite there yet, but something maybe maybe down the line. Yeah, yeah. We love I have Kate Spade dishes, so I can I definitely would be on board with cute Kate Spade inspired.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, like I feel like that's the vibe, like some polka dots with some like fun yiddish on it. It's like in yeah, like we have we have our Kate Spade Seder plate. Um, and we love it, and the girls love it. And um, so I would love to do like that is like the vibe in my head, like the fun patterns and colors with some like fun little like yiddish and stuff thrown in.
Nicole Kelly:Well, when you get when you get to that point, let me know because I have so much stuff in my kitchen and I feel like I love kitchen stuff, but I don't cook. Um same, I'm not allowed to buy anymore, but I still I'm not allowed to buy a lot of things, but it doesn't stop me. Um I just keep doing it, so I hear yeah.
Courtney Cohen:I know we have so much stuff, and then now the point like I mean things just get broken all the time here, but I'm kind of like it is what it is.
Nicole Kelly:I know.
Courtney Cohen:So I've got we've got a ton of coffee mugs, so if one's like it's kind of like because we do, we have so much stuff I'm not allowed to buy anymore.
Nicole Kelly:Like, what is it with having all these mugs and things you never need? I feel like I have this stuff that like I hold on to and I'm just like I never use this, but I am attached enough that I don't want to get rid to point it.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, can't get a w I should get rid of them or like donate them or recycle them, and I feel like I only get rid of mugs when they're broken. Even though I don't use most of them. But I'm like, oh, I need that one that I got, you know, that Jake got me on that work trip to like Arizona 10 years ago.
Nicole Kelly:Like, no, I don't just in case. Just in case.
Courtney Cohen:I really don't need it, but yeah, like we just have so much, or if we get well, you know, when you inherit things from like other family members, whether they've like just given them to you or they've like passed away. But even if I don't use them, they're just sitting in the drawer.
Nicole Kelly:Yep, yep, I totally get it. So I want to switch gears a little bit to talk about some of the challenges that you know Jews in general are facing and as a business owner, because it's an interesting time, you know, to be a business owner and to be Jewish, and to combine those things, I think is very challenging. So, what are some of the things that you find challenging right now, or in general, about owning a Jewish business, and also to make it happy, some of the rewards of owning a Jewish business right now?
Courtney Cohen:I think I mean I think some of the challenges are just like general, like probably I'm sure you probably experienced well, just like general like business owner stuff. Like, I feel like a lot of my challenge right now is getting my name out there and like creating the content. I mean, it is. I mean, people say, you know, like you can have a business, but like creating your content is like another job as part of like business because that's how people most not everybody, but a lot of people, and I feel like a lot of like my target audiences are like on TikTok, they're on Instagram, they're looking like they're for content, so it's like creating that content and like catching the eyes of people. I will say, I feel like especially like on TikTok, I've seen that there is like a large it's like a little bit different than Instagram, but like a Jewish community that like people are like up in people's comments, like commenting, and you know, things like that. There's also some negative comments. I don't know how much of those. I mean, I get a I get a few occasionally, and I just try and be like, okay, well, thanks for the engagement, you know. Like, um, but you know, I think I mean some of them you can tell are probably bots.
Nicole Kelly:Um yes, that's always fun. My husband's saying, don't argue with the bots, and yeah, I because I usually just ignore, but sometimes I get in a mood and I'm like, no, I'm gonna do this.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah. I posted some, and it's weird they like comment. I don't know what it is. I mean, I don't really know how like the bots, you know, working on that, but it's like I think they don't even comment. I feel like no, I think some I got one on one of like my like Lashana Tonotova videos, but I posted something about like soup, like a hack for matzo soup, and I got a comment, and someone who had left me like a positive comment, like commented back, was like, Why are you being weird? This is a video about soup, and so I feel like some of these comments I'm getting, it is literally I was talking about how I use baby carrots in matzabal soup because it's just an easy hack and I don't have to sit and cut up carrots, and I got this like I don't remember if it was Free Palestine or something similar, but I was like, It this is like it's it's unrelated, and I know I posted a daughter of my daughter walking uphill when it was snowing, and someone decided and someone decided to bring in the Middle East, and I was like, this is not related.
Nicole Kelly:So I don't know, like I said, I don't know, like you were saying, I don't know if it's a bot or it's just insane people. Yeah, it is because nothing to do.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, some of them you can tell our bots, but some of them like, are you like a real person? And yeah, but I think I mean, yeah, I think that too, but I think part of my challenge is too because I am first and foremost a Jewish company, but I also wanted to create products that sort of were for everybody. I mean, like I have everyone loves bagels, like bagel specific. Yes, like Jewish people love bagels. I mean, that's like a thing, but also like lots of people love bagels, and so I wanted to create things that sort of like celebrated like my like Jewish experience, which I know is like different than you know, like other people's and what things that I love and things that I like associate with it and and sort of like again, like my experience, but then like make it for everybody, and I think that's probably part of some. It's like some people I'm not saying people have done this because I've never like talked to someone done this, but I think there's probably like for all Jewish business owners, even if they don't create like even if they have stuff that's not like Jewish specific, I'm they're sure there are people that are probably like, well, they're Jewish, so bye, you know, so and again, I've never like spoken to someone who've like had that conversation with that, but I imagine that probably is going on out there for like Jewish business owners that they're like, Okay, well you're Jewish, I don't really care what you have to say, what you have, but um, but I think it just but there are wonderful communities and there are a lot of people like supporting, it's just sort of like finding them, but which is another job in itself.
Nicole Kelly:Yes, yes, it's like this marketing is especially on social media. I feel like 10 years ago things were very different. Um it's it's just a different world, and it is it is I mean, I have a cousin who does this full-time for a company, it's a full-time job, yeah, it's crazy. And I I have a list of things that I want to do, and it's just you know, I think I'm decent at editing videos, but it takes time. And if you're gonna do a like I do a lot of things with like pictures, and then if you have to do a voiceover, and then you like you have to check all the subtitles and everything, and it takes like an hour to create 30 seconds because it is a full-time job.
Courtney Cohen:Oh, yeah, I agree. I agree.
Nicole Kelly:And sometimes I have like you were saying, like, I just want to like talk, but you have to do it like 10 times because you feel like you make a mistake with a word.
Courtney Cohen:It's a full thing. I've tried to be, you know, I see a lot of like videos, especially from like the content people experts, that are like just post your video. So I'm trying to be a little bit more of like not picky, yeah. Yeah, I'm just gonna post. And because I think part two, it's also like figuring out like the algorithm and like getting people on your video to find, just find you. So it's just kind of like, I'm just I'm trying to be better of like we're just gonna post stuff.
Nicole Kelly:I don't understand because right now I have a TikTok. I'm gonna pull this up so I can be correct with how many views. I have a TikTok video I made about the Jewish American girl doll, Rebecca, and it has 16,000 views on TikTok. And then I have videos that have 20 views. So I'm like, no, and I know there's all these videos that are like that this is how you get views, and I'm like, okay.
Courtney Cohen:No, yeah. I'm convinced that like there's a few that I'm like, oh, okay, that I like that a lot of like those people are like will give like video ideas, which are nice. Yeah, but it's also weird too because you could post the same thing on Instagram and get like five likes, and I'm like, Yeah, I don't know.
Nicole Kelly:They're completely different things because they're different out. Yeah, they're different monsters, and it's my background is not in marketing and I don't understand. And I'm just like, well, I think this is funny, so obviously that's literally what I do.
Courtney Cohen:I'm like, okay, this sounds good to me. I would watch it. Great. Some someone else will appreciate it.
Nicole Kelly:I hope so. But you know, I feel like, you know, if five people actually enjoy and it ends up with a legitimate follow, maybe that's better than having 1600, you know, 16,000 views and not really getting any new followers. So I I try to think of it that way.
Courtney Cohen:No, no, for sure. I mean, you want the people like to come back and they like to find you to like find your people. So no, I agree.
Nicole Kelly:Yes. So we talked a little bit about the little ones wanting to help, quote unquote, with the small business, but other than them wanting to like physically help and we talked a little about time management. What are some of the challenges that you find? Um, and also like I said earlier, rewards of being a business owner while having young children.
Courtney Cohen:Um I think my aside from yeah, like wanting to help are always like one well one thing, my stickers always get taken. Just like a little tactically like there's on my I should have brought taken picture on my daughter's wall, they share a room, and they took a handful of my stickers and made like a person out of them. Oh. So they like ripped some it's just it's a whole thing. So half my stickers disappear, and I'm like occupational hazard. I mean, like I I make them, so you mean obviously it's I can I cannot I now can't sell them, but like it's not like you know, um, a big child in the world. I think part of it is like my biggest sort of challenge right now is giving time to everyone. And so, because obviously too, like when you have like a full-time job and you have that, and so then you come home, or like on the weekend, you're like, okay, really need to like get these orders out, or whatever it is, but also like, okay, I haven't seen my children who I do love, who I do want to see.
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Courtney Cohen:So I think the biggest thing uh with you know, being a business owner and you know, being a mom is really just trying to essentially like. At all, as they say. Um, and like wanting to work on the business and grow that, but also be around the humans that I made. Um, yeah, I get it.
Nicole Kelly:I get it.
Courtney Cohen:So that's so a lot of times it is is like if they're an activity, I'm bringing my computer and doing, you know, when they're at gymnastics, using that hour to like, you know, do stuff. So that's just kind of just getting it done when I can, basically.
Nicole Kelly:If you had like a dream for the company, what would that be? Would it be like this being your full-time gig and it being like a huge Judaica company, or would you like to keep it small, or like what what would be your dream for the company if you, you know, if like a genie appeared and was like, we can do whatever you want?
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, I mean, I would love to be able to ship and like do things like in other countries, um Israel, but also, you know, other countries. And I would love I mean it can see some benefits and like keeping it small. I would like to grow, I'd love to be able to do it full time, um, and then travel to different markets and things like that. Um, I'm doing in March of next year. There's this big like Jewish Joy Con that's happening.
Nicole Kelly:And I where is that happening?
Courtney Cohen:It's uh it's Fort Lauderdale.
Nicole Kelly:Okay, I'm not going to Fort Lauderdale, but that sounds fun.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, and so um that's the first like one that I've really traveled for. And it's it's like the first, you know, one Jean Meltzer, the author, it's like spearheading it with some of her other um like author friends, I think. And but I would love to be able to, you know, I do get some like messages sometimes like, oh, we'd love to have you at this market and stuff like that. And it's just not really feasible right now. Um, but I would love to get to a point where I can like do the things and and go different places and and you know, bring Dashana Putnams on the road. Um yeah. But you need to be able to continue to go.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, yeah. It's hard when you have when you have like other things going on and you want to completely focus on this. I get it. And it's hard at at what point do you like make the jump and you're like, this is the full-time thing. So I totally get that. Um, like we were just talking about joy. So you talk about joy a lot on your social media, and obviously we just talked about a Jewish joy con. So, what does Jewish joy mean to you?
Courtney Cohen:You know, a little bit ago, my daughter, so my two daughters are Chaya and Zoe. Um, my son's Brian, and she I wrote this down because I didn't want to forget it. Um, she just was like, we were eating dinner, she just like randomly started drawing a Seder plate. Just randomly, and my daughter, and this when then we're talking about Passover. My daughter, so she loves gel rings, but she calls them Passover donuts. And so I think it's just seeing them and these different things about like Judaism, whether that's like the culture or like Jewish holidays, and like how like seeing it through them, um and that makes me happy. Um, I had so much fun at Sunday school, that makes me happy. I make hala every week, and that's part, and I love looking at watching videos and like finding new ways to break it and things like that. So I think it's just like all the like little things that really is just like our life, and that's like the Jewish part of it. Um, like I love reading Jewish authors, um, which I feel you know, there's a lot of um like romantic comedy books. There's not a lot of I at least that I know of a lot of like Jewish authors writing Jewish author, you know, Jewish like rom-com stories. So it's I love seeing that. I love reading rom com books and them talking about like going to Shabbat dinner or like services or whatever, and it's not, but I love it too because it's not the main focus, it's not it's just like these characters and they are Jewish, and this is just their life versus like making it everything be about that, and so it's just those different things. Um they just you know make me happy and yeah. You mentioned hala, so you make hala every week? Yeah, so pretty much every week. I see. I mean, we cheat, so I use a bread maker. Okay. Um, unless for some reason we don't have time for it'cause it's nice too, because the bread maker will also like warm it so it rises, and it's just a lot easier to like pour stuff in there and let it do it versus like doing it by hand or washing the mixer and stopping the mixer and do all that. So yeah, we do it every week. Um, and it's just like part of our even if we don't have like a fancy and we don't really have like the elaborate Shabbat dinners, there's just like not time to do that. Um, you know, it's pretty basic, but we always have hala and they they girls know it's like a Friday night thing. Um, before my bobby passed away, we would we would when we'd call her, but especially on Friday nights, they always knew like we'd always said Shibba Shalam on Friday nights. Um so it's just sort of like, and like they'll say, like, oh, is it hala night? And so it's just part of like our routine.
Nicole Kelly:I I commend you on that. I cannot make hala. I've been to hala workshops, it's just not my my jam. The my daughter's school will send you can pay to have hala sent home, and that's what we do because I cannot bake. But maybe with a with a with a mixer, it might be easier. I don't know.
Courtney Cohen:Well, I'm telling you, the bread maker is is life changing. I think it's one of those jokes that like you know, you people get it for like their weddings and stuff, and they don't use them. Like my Bubby always had a joke that she would get a bread maker, or like, and then she would like someone would give it to her and she would like give it and like she but she would keep getting it back. And we didn't even get one for our wedding, but we made it every night, every Friday, that it was just like, and we try and use it other times, um, but it is you just throw it in there, it does the gel, and then you braid it, and it's great. I mean, I know there's a lot of people who do it by hand, and it's like that is part of their Friday, and that's part of their routine and their ritual, which is like more power to them. Um, but it just it is great. Because especially too, like if you have like pickups and stuff, you can put it in, you can let it do its thing, and then it comes back, and so it is it's nice.
Nicole Kelly:I feel like my mom had a bread baker that she never used, so I get the whole not using a bread maker. So you talked a little bit about the reading the Jewish rom-coms, um, but some of your products talk specifically about Hallmark movies. Um I know I love Hallmark movies. So you're a fan of Hallmark movies. They've recently started making Hanukkah movies. I want to know what your thoughts and feelings are on the Hallmark Hanukkah movies because I have very specific feelings.
Courtney Cohen:Um so part of it is like I'm very glad that you tried. Yes, like I appreciate the effort. I mean, I watched them all. Um, Jake makes fun of me, and like it is what it is. Um, but I think you know, there's the one last year, I think it was like Rebecca's biggest gift or whatever that one was called. And that one kind of that one was weird to me because it was like this Jewish person celebrating Christmas and like wanting to celebrate Christmas, and I get it like growing up, especially when you don't grow up in like a big Jewish area, it really all you see is Christmas, and so we didn't really decorate, we didn't have the lights everywhere. Um, so I can see that. I can see whereas like Christmas might seem to be this like magical time, and Hanukkah, while magical in its own right, isn't doesn't get the like fanfare. Um and so some of them are I mean, I loved Hanukkah and Rye, that's my favorite so far. I thought that was a good one. Um but I think overall, is Hanukkah like Hallmark movies in the general, just like you know, they just try to accept them for what they are. Um, and it's nice that they are giving some um some air time to some Hanukkah and stories.
Nicole Kelly:I agree. I just think they're not perfect, but they're not perfect, no, because I think a lot of it is like they get people who celebrate different holidays and they essentially are teaching each other about the holidays, and that's kind of what it is. Where you know, I have not seen Hanukkah on Rye, I'll have to check that out.
Courtney Cohen:Um I can appreciate that they use like Jewish actors and actresses, and I feel like a lot of times, you know, in a lot of like Jewish stories that are told on like movies and TVs, they don't always have. And so I can appreciate that that I think they've all made, right? Yeah, I think they pretty much all like the main people have been Jewish or celebrate, you know, Hanukkah.
Nicole Kelly:So I can appreciate that that they do that because not you know, that is definitely not the norm, and something I think that is, you know, I'm a former actor, and I think a lot of you know conversations have been had and continue to be have to be to be happening about these, you know. Well, because technically anybody can be Jewish, you know, there's not like it's not like you look always a certain way, but like, do we need somebody from Argentina playing Fanny Bryce? Um, which is definitely what happened on the first national tour of Funny Girl. There was like a huge problem that people had with that. Right. So um this last part, I kind of call it my actor studio section because these are just quick questions that don't require long answers. Um, so uh the first one is what is your favorite Yiddish word?
Courtney Cohen:Uh, there's a lot. I was like going back and forth. I was like, uh, so I think it's schwitz. Okay. Only because well, I have a lot of like schwishing stuff. But I just feel like it's a fun word. I mean, I like them all. You know what's funny? So I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's maybe I just like think too hard, but the word Cavell, I feel like when I say it, I like feel like I'm always saying it weird. And then I'm thinking about saying it weird, and then I like record, like because Kveller, the online publication, is great. I I love him. And sometimes I'll, you know, they'll put one of my products in there and I was like, I make a video, but then I go to say the word and I'm like, am I saying this right? Like, what is it? I'm gonna love the word, but I'm like, I've been saying these words my whole life, but I'm like, now that I think about it, I'm like, this is weird. Like, am I saying this correctly? Um, I love that word also. Um, you could have more than one favorite, yeah.
Nicole Kelly:My and not or person.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, my two things about like things like my Bubby and Zadie, like my name grab us to say, you know, they would say, like, my Bubby said Khazarai a lot, um, she said that a lot. Um but yeah, I think Schwitz is probably my favorite one.
Nicole Kelly:What is your favorite Jewish holiday?
Courtney Cohen:Oh, probably Hanukkah. Which I know it's funny because it's obviously in terms of like importance to the Jewish religion, it's not up there compared to, you know, obviously like Sean and like young court, those are much more like quote unquote like important holidays. But I think it's the fun. I mean, there's a lot of fun ones, actually. We have a lot of fun holidays. Um, you know, porn is great of that. I just feel like I don't know if it's just like the time of year it is, you know, everything's pretty. We're all like cozy and it just like I also like maybe it's more because it's in like the holiday time. Yeah, that's probably it. Yeah.
Nicole Kelly:So if you were to have abutmits for today, what would the theme of the party be?
Courtney Cohen:Um, so I so it's it would probably be like sports or books. I'm a big sports fan or books, or honestly, it would probably be like a fundraiser for like a like Planned Parenthood or like approach. It would be some sort of like that's yeah, that is valid and amazing. Yeah, it would be like some sort of yeah, like fundraiser for like a cause that was important to me.
Nicole Kelly:I love that's not an answer I've ever gotten. Uh what profession other than your own would you want to attempt?
Courtney Cohen:Um probably um like like book editing or publishing. I feel like I'd be good there. I used to I mean I read as much as I can now, but I mean like growing up, like I I have certain thoughts about Harry Potter now that things have come out about like the author, but you know, growing up when Harry Potter would come out would be like this big deal, and I like I'd be the kid that like sat up and like read it all night and like so done. So I mean, and I still love to read. Um, but so it'd probably I would love to be able to be like paid to read.
Nicole Kelly:I would love to be paid to read. That sounds like a dream. Instead, now because I am in grad school, I pay to read. So um it's a different thing. Uh so if heaven is real and God is there to welcome you, what would you like to hear them say? Oh my gosh, I'm gonna get it upset.
Courtney Cohen:Um, so I think I would want to hear them say that there are people waiting for you. Meaning the people that I miss. Oh my god, I'm gonna cry. I don't know if this happened to you, but like I I thought I was always like an emotional person, but like now that I have kids, even if it's not kid related, I just cry all the time.
Nicole Kelly:I, you know, for me it was a little different when I first went to acting school, is when the floodgates were opened and I just cry over everything. I cry over like McDonald's commercials sometimes. And but yes, like certain things that like the kid thing, I totally get. Like it changes your like emotional availability about things a lot.
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, I just feel like I mean any certain things like you know, watching those videos like the like the sad dog or like the thing, like the people like they share that clip of like the end of Homeward Bound when like Shadow runs up, and like I can't watch, I would say like a lot of people like can't watch that without crying. But I mean, even like the homecoming videos of like the you know, the armed force family, like I just cry like every single thing I cry at work sometimes. Um, everything makes me cry. Um, yeah, I feel like I would want that because then I would, yeah, the my loved ones who are no longer here, you know, get to see them again. So all right.
Nicole Kelly:So thank you so much for joining me today, Courtney. And if anyone was interested in checking out uh your products, where would they go to to look at them?
Courtney Cohen:Yeah, so we have um an Etsy shop and also we have a website, it's just a shanapunums.com. Um, we also have you can find us on Instagram and TikTok. We also have a Facebook, but um, that's not really as active. I mean, it's active in the sense of like what I post on Instagram goes to Facebook, but I feel like Facebook isn't where a lot of people are like actively doing things compared to maybe how active they are in other places. Um, but all of the handles are to Shana put them. So we're really easy to find. Um, but yeah, if you check us out, give us a follow. Um we do have a newsletter. It was my goal to be better at a newsletter this year. I have not met that goal.
Nicole Kelly:Well, you got a new year, so you get to uh get to refocus on that goal.
Courtney Cohen:Oh my god, I forgot. Yes, it's funny. I saw something the other day that was like the Jewish people have it right. The new year should absolutely be in fall. Fall feels like a new beginning. They're like, what did it say? It was like, why? It was like, what's with January?
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, January is a sad time.
Courtney Cohen:I'm I'm pro I mean that it's the first month, but it was like that's a good point. Yeah, like fall, it feels like people are back to school. It does feel like a new time. Um, but I think Jewish people are right about lots of things.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, I agree with you. So um, this is Nicole Kelly, and this has been She Brew in the City.
