Shebrew in the City
Shebrew in the City is a podcast exploring all things Jewish. Combining interviews and informational episodes, join Nicole Kelly as she discusses her journey with motherhood, spirituality, and everything from Hanukkah to the Holocaust. Giving a voice to modern Jews and spreading love and joy, whether you're Jewish, Jew-ish, or not anything resembling Jewish at all, there's something here for everyone.
Shebrew in the City
"Three's Company" - An Interview with the 3G Collective (Part 2)
Welcome back for Part 2 of my discussion with 3G Collective: John Reed, Shany Dagan, and Jana Krumholtz!
Three grandchildren of Holocaust survivors are using their talents as dancers, actors, and choreographers to tell their families' stories through powerful artistic performances.
• John describes his journey from watching his sister dance to becoming a professional dancer and choreographer
• John shares his experience working on "Amid Falling Walls," an off-Broadway show featuring Yiddish songs written in concentration camps and ghettos
• Shany discusses her transition from Israeli contemporary dance to American theater and aerial circus arts
• Shany explains her dance memoir featuring her grandparents' Holocaust survival stories performed simultaneously on stage
• Jana talks about her commercial dance career highlights including performing on SNL and Lip Sync Battle
• The artists explain how they formed the 3G Collective after discovering their connected histories
• Each artist describes their individual shows exploring third-generation Holocaust trauma and resilience
• They discuss why third-generation stories provide unique perspectives on Holocaust history and intergenerational trauma
• The collective emphasizes that their art demonstrates Jewish resilience - "they didn't win, we're still here"
Follow the 3G Collective on Instagram at @thirdgenproject for information about their upcoming performance at Arts On Site on August 7th.
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Visiting a city, maybe for the second time, and don't want to visit the same tourist traps? Check out Top Dog Tours. We have lots of different options for walking tours of neighborhoods and attractions that everybody will love. We are in Boston, Philadelphia, Toronto and New York City. You can visit us at topdogtours. com and check us out on social media for offers and discounts. I'm Nicole Kelly and we are back with part two of talking to the 3G Collective and we're gonna transition from talking about gender generational trauma, at least for a moment, and talk about art and theater. So I want to start with John. So you're an actor, a director and a choreographer. How did you first get involved dancing and then how did you get involved choreographing and teaching dance, and can you talk about some of your favorite projects that you've worked on?
John Reed:Yeah, If anyone knows the musical A Chorus Line it was eventually Never heard of it.
John Reed:Never heard of it. Right, never heard of it. What? Well, there's a no, essentially there's a song from A Chorus Line called I Can Do that, which is about one of the male dancers on the line talking about how he got into dancing, which was by watching his sister dance. And that is essentially what happened to me watching his sister dance. And that is essentially what happened to me. My sister, you know, at about six or seven, started taking, you know, little dance classes, and when we would go to pick her up I would watch some of the classes and see some of the boys there and think, oh, actually that looks like a lot of fun, I kind of want to do that. And so mom was like great, and she enrolled me in dance class.
Nicole Kelly:I was about- how old were you in this? Yeah, how old were you?
John Reed:I was about nine or 10. Okay, so you were like a fully formed child and bodily awareness. You weren't like my daughter.
Nicole Kelly:It's because my daughter's in ballet and sometimes I'm like these children have no control of their bodies. Oh, yeah, yeah.
John Reed:No, I was, yeah. I mean, I definitely had a lot to learn, but I just really took to it. It was the only sort of thing that I ever was motivated to try to get better at. That was one thing Like I had even when I moved to Australia and I joined my the local Jewish community basketball team and I was trying to do all these sports and stuff and I was just like I'm thinking of that Bill Finn song about the Jewish people playing baseball.
Shany Dagan:May his memory be a blessing. I know, I know.
Nicole Kelly:I immediately sent you a message. I was leaving the museum and I was just starting to cry on the train because talk about intergenerational trauma music.
John Reed:Oh my God, if you do not know, who Bill Finn is.
Nicole Kelly:please Google Bill Finn. He wrote a musical called Falsettos, which is my heart. It's one of the most Jewish shows ever written and his Jewishness kind of bled into everything that he wrote.
John Reed:Beautiful songwriter. So I was essentially. I just noticed that, even that, everything that dance was the only thing that I actually ever really wanted to improve in and get better at. And then I finally, you know, started really taking it seriously at about 14, 15, where I was going, you know, three days a week after school and on Saturdays to dance class, and I started taking acting classes and singing lessons. I was like this is my direction, this is where I need to be, and then that luckily got me into a really great college in Australia where I studied musical theater as a degree.
John Reed:Big money maker, those BFAs, big money maker, oh yeah oh yeah, Especially in Australia in a country of only 20 million people.
John Reed:The industry there is even smaller. But what was great, though, was that I actually only actually started properly choreographing after college. I was not intending to really choreograph at all, and in a way there's a part of me that still feels I'm not sort of meant to or sort of I feel like a real choreographer. But I essentially helped start a Shakespeare repertory company or was part of the founding of a Shakespeare rep company, and after a while they realized I was doing most of their shows and they realized that I was a dancer, and so they started asking me to dance captain. And then eventually they started asking, asking me to choreograph some of their productions. Some of them I was in and also choreographed, which also was a massive headache, and I don't think I ever want to choreograph a show slash, be in one at least in a, in a musical or a play setting Um, because that was a lot, but was um?
John Reed:I really started to sort of get get into it more just because people asked me to do it. Um, and I have always been and was sort of raised in the style of real jazz ballet techniques, so real and especially, you know, with a lot of storytelling through movement. So influence influenced by like Jerome Robbins and later on particularly Christopher Wheldon and real, you know ballet choreographer who can tell incredible stories through movement, really kind of were my North Star. And then I actually then started developing this real love for like making dance films and seeing how I could film dance and create little mini vignettes or short narratives that were all danced and all filmed, which also has kind of become a new kind of love of mine. That I've made maybe about four so far and I'm definitely into making more.
John Reed:But in terms of my performing career, I mean I was very lucky to be able to do a fantastic production of West Side Story in Sydney. It was actually done outside on Sydney Harbor. It was sort of Very cool. If you think of the Muni stage in St Louis, it was about that size, that's a very big stage.
Nicole Kelly:They Like they have full on, like horses on that stage sometimes, but it was on the water in front of the Sydney Opera House and the Sydney Harbor Bridge.
John Reed:It was an extraordinary experience Got to do mainly yeah, and a lot of musicals there. No-transcript. I was so excited to get to finally do the. Do it as an adult.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, yeah, yeah, um fit on the roof, you know.
Shany Dagan:I've never been casted because they told me I don't look Jewish enough. Okay, I just had to jump in there.
Jana Krumholtz:That's so good, I was like we just need to put up our own.
John Reed:I was just going to say let's just do it ourselves. I will do that.
Nicole Kelly:I will come out of retirement. I have spent a lot of time in Anatevka.
John Reed:Oh yeah, that's my family. Yeah, I mean I could grow the meanest rabbi beard. It was huge and disgusting. It was so good, um, and then actually I was. I was really, uh, lucky to be able to make my off-broadway debut with yeah, I want to talk about that.
Nicole Kelly:That was my next question, oh great well, I'll include so talk, talk about amid falling walls.
John Reed:I want to hear about.
Nicole Kelly:I want to hear about that and how you got involved with that.
John Reed:Yeah, so well, funnily enough, in terms of getting involved, I was actually going to be cast in the Australian production of Fiddler on the Roof in Yiddish by the folks being that they were going to bring that really successful production of Fiddler in Yiddish to Australia, but it didn't happen because of COVID Yiddish to Australia. But it didn't happen because of COVID. But, having that sort of connection, I got in touch with them when I moved to the States, essentially just to say, hey, you know, I was going to be in your production in Australia, but I'm in America now and, you know, would love to connect, and they were actually bringing Fiddler in Yiddish back for like seven weeks at the end of 2022, which I went in and auditioned for. I didn't end up getting, but that then allowed me to kind of get in front of them again.
John Reed:And then they reached out essentially asking to do a reading of this new musical that they were developing, which was essentially a review, called well, in Yiddish it's Zvishen Falendik Event, which means Amid Falling Walls, which actually is taken from the partisan hymn that we sing every day on Yom HaShoah, and it was essentially a collection of songs that were collected, actually by the artistic director's parents that they collected all of these Yiddish songs that were written in the concentration camps and the ghettos and we essentially kind of did a review of these Yiddish songs that were written in the concentration camps and the ghettos and we essentially kind of did a review of these songs and then we put it up as a full production in February not February, november and December of 2023 at the Museum of Jewish Heritage in Battery Park, and I was a swing and dance captain in that. So I actually never went on, um, because it was only a four week run. Um, so, and I was actually much more than like a creative. I felt much more like, you know, an assistant or as an associate choreographer as opposed to an actor in it. Um, but it was a really, it was a beautiful group of people, um, uh, steven Skybell, actually, who was Tev in Fiddler in Yiddish and is currently playing Herr Schultz in the current Broadway revival of Cabaret, was in it with us, as well as many alumni from Fiddler in Yiddish, and it felt incredibly powerful actually to be playing Jewish people singing songs, particularly like songs about the partisan fighters and songs about, you know, yelling the lyrics Jews have faith, let them go to hell. Like that was literally one of the lines and it was like it was one of the most powerful moments where I really saw Jews like screaming and fighting back in a way that I hadn't before and I was really honored that I could and, actually, as a little tidbit, that we had these screens across the audience that showed old photos and videos of the time and at the end there's a beautiful poem that's spoken about a boy who has his bar mitzvah in a DP camp and we show pictures of weddings happening and bar mitzvahs happening in DP camps.
John Reed:And I actually asked, and I got, to include the wedding photo of my grandparents in the end of the slideshow. They weren't married in the DP camp but I wanted to include their wedding photo. And I got my mom on FaceTime during tech and I showed her. I was like guess what, look over there. And she was at work and she goes oh my God, that's my parents. And then just broke down crying at work. And so I was. Really it meant a lot that I could have them with me on stage.
Nicole Kelly:I love that Sorry that's me done.
Nicole Kelly:No, no, no, no, no. That was my next question. That was the question I wanted to ask about that Because I know it was probably, like you said, a very personal experience. So, shani, you are also a dancer and choreographer and, as I mentioned, you're a fellow AMDA alumni. How did you first get involved with dance? I know nothing about anything other than film out of Israel. I don't know really about the theater scene and the dance scene. Can you tell me how you got involved with that and some of the projects that you've worked on that you've been really passionate about?
Shany Dagan:Sure. So I don't know who I am without dance. I will start with that. I started when I was three and never stopped. My sister was a dancer until she was 18. And so I kind of followed her lead.
Shany Dagan:But I really fell in love with it. I kind of knew from, let's say, eight that this is what I want to do, from, let's say, eight, that this is what I want to do. And I had to go to the Army as well, and so I really wanted to go as well. So I auditioned to try and get into an excellent dancer program during the Army, which is basically what it says is that it's recognizing you as an athlete, um, and giving you time to go and pursue your, your um, sport. So for me it was dance, and I was one of the. I was picked um from the jury, uh, to be one of their um dancers. That goes dancers, that goes as an artist, to stay and perform and study while I was in the army.
Shany Dagan:So it was very, very special and I was recognized as an outstanding dancer in Israel and so that kind of gave me the opportunity to go to New York and try theater, which I've never tried before. Actually, I was a modern contemporary dancer, very, very strong scene in Israel of contemporary dance. So I was sure that I'm going to go into companies and tour the world and the whole thing. But I fell in love with theater when I came to New York and did this Broadway Dance Center summer intensive. When I came back to Israel I decided I'm going to look into more theater which wasn't as developed as it is now. It's more developed now but it's still not in the same level as New York. And so when I finished my service I decided I'm going to audition for AMDA and I said to myself if I get in it's a sign and I'm moving. And I didn't believe I'm going to get in. And then I got in and I was like oh well, now I have to follow through.
Shany Dagan:I know you've got to do it, yes.
Nicole Kelly:Oh no, I have to move to New York, that's so new?
Shany Dagan:Yeah, exactly, and so I really I couldn't believe I actually got accepted and I've decided I'm gonna move and I moved at 2013 and did the whole. I did a year and a half, so I just did all of the semesters, one after another.
Nicole Kelly:I did the same thing any break.
Shany Dagan:Yeah, and I'm actually really excited because I was invited to choreograph for them this summer. Um so I'm really, really excited for this.
Nicole Kelly:At the LA campus or no.
Shany Dagan:Actually in New York they have a summer festival for the dancers. I didn't know that, for the whole school actually and so I was invited to choreograph for them, and I'm very honored. It's like a full circle for me, and after that I just started auditioning. I kind of went through the whole path of non-union dancers. 5 am being on the run.
Nicole Kelly:Real life chorus line.
Shany Dagan:Yeah, yeah, real life chorus line and I was very lucky to have landed my first job with RWS. I will never forget it, because it was my first job in New York that I felt like, oh my god, I'm actually doing this, you know, and that was one of the most impact like work that I've done, starting up and starting up and RWS, uh, send me to Holland America cruise lines, which I started my, my cruise ship tour, and that was very exciting. And actually that's when I found the um aerial work, um, that was my next question.
Shany Dagan:Yeah, so that's where I started my circus work. That was my next question. Yeah, so that's where I started my circus work. I fell in love with it. I'm also a personal trainer for the past 15 years almost. And strength women's strength was one of my most important and interesting things I've always been interested in. Um and Ariel was kind of the, the midline between the dance for me and the strength uh work. And so I've become really good really fast because I had that Um and I fell in love with it and decided I'm going to go and study circus and kind of started that path until COVID.
Shany Dagan:During COVID I kind of stopped, like everyone else, the world just stopped and I decided I'm going to focus on choreography in the meantime, because I had nothing else to do and I've always loved choreographing and I had a different voice, I think, because I had contemporary background and I shifted into theater and that's what brought me into choreography. So, as a choreographer, I'm trying to find that thin line of um, strength and I. I work a lot with women, um, but I actually started with men because, um, I wanted that like muscly movement, I wanted the floor work, I wanted, um, yeah, that's, that's basically where I started, and then I felt like I needed to shift that world of masculine into the world of feminine and I took it into into a different path. So a lot of the work that I'm doing now is about um, strong women, women's uh, empowerment, um, that's kind of where I'm, where I'm at right now. Um, and I also want to speak about another really, really important work that I'm really passionate about and kind of changed my life.
Shany Dagan:I found this wonderful woman. Her name is Fran Atkins, spector, and she has a company called Spector Dance and it's actually in California, in Monterey, and she offered me to at first. I dance with the company and they do projects that basically dedicate the work to make a change in the world, and so her work really really spoke to me and it's not just dance, it's dance to make something better and I really really fell in love with it. And eventually she offered me to join their board, and so I'm also on the board for the company and every month we have a meeting and it's so fulfilling. And this woman is is amazing. She's, um, over 80 and she still creates, and so I just want to kind of give her a shout out and just I, I love her work and I think it's so important to take our art and make it into something. How did you?
Nicole Kelly:meet her.
Shany Dagan:Funny question. My friend was her student when she grew up and they needed another dancer because one of the dancers got hurt. And she asked me if I wanted to come in just help pre-production for her new show and I said yes, sure, no problem, and we kind of fell in love with each other in the room. Yeah, I really liked how she worked although she was like all over the place and she's going to vouch for that but her work was so passionate. She's really passionate about dance. She's really passionate about making changes and just do better. And we just we kept in touch after that one show and then she offered me to be a soloist in another show that she did and she flew me into LA and I did that work with her and we just kept on going from there.
Nicole Kelly:I love when people meet artistically and just like, yep, you, I. I feel like we've all kind of had those moments, yeah, okay. So Jana, you, like the rest of us, are performers. How did you get your start with that, and can you talk about some of the favorite projects that you've worked on?
Jana Krumholtz:Sure. So I have like a non-traditional route to being a performer. I didn't go to school for it. I grew up dancing. I started at three, same as Shani, and I fell in love at like five. I think I knew it's what I wanted to do, obsessed all the way, and chorus line was the movie that made me want to do it all when I saw it.
Jana Krumholtz:I watched over and over again and I get in trouble for watching it because of the dirty songs of you know whatever. But um, um. So, yeah, going to school, for it wasn't an option and I didn't, yeah, I didn't. I didn't have the strength to like break up the family at 18.
Jana Krumholtz:I had the strength to do it at 22. Um, so I went to college for economics and nonprofit management and, um, and always in the back of my mind, like I knew, I wanted to go to school in New York so I could be in the dance scene. So I started like coat checking and catering and just saving money on the side so I'd be able to figure it out. Um, when I graduated college, I got a bartending job and um was like, here we go. So I was just kind of like a lost, wild child trying to figure out how to become. I had no guidance, I didn't have anyone telling me how to do it. So it was. It was a messy, wild time but through choices and different things, I I guess.
Jana Krumholtz:Um, I had an internship at an agency. I auditioned for Alvin Ailey's pre-professional program and got in. So I did that for six months and then I was looking around and I was like what am I doing here? Like I want training. But I'm not going to be in a company. Like what am I what? What am I doing here?
Jana Krumholtz:Like I want training but I'm not going to be in a company Like what am I what, what am I doing? And so I left that. I auditioned for um. There's um, a pretty well-known um street jazz choreographer named Rhapsody James, and this was at the time pre Instagram she was doing. It was like the very beginning of dance intensives in the commercial world. She created something called motivating excellence and it was like a four month program. She only took 10 girls, 10 guys. You had to audition. You had it was four to four days a week, from eight to three or nine to three, and it was so cheap, bless her heart, it was so affordable, um, and there was a performance at the end of it and you were just under her mentorship and you trained in partnering for the commercial world, heels on camera, like commercial audit, just like it was.
Jana Krumholtz:It was a commercial dance intensive and that was huge for me because I had dreamed of being in that and I got to do season three of that and um, and I guess after that's when it all kind of began and just randomly auditioning time and time again for agencies and all that stuff running around like a nutso person. And so I started doing gigs in New York and you know, you meet people and they help you out and all that stuff, and so I guess I did like a little tour with an artist, things like that. My most favorite jobs were dancing on SNL. It was like such a crazy what John's like. I didn't know this, what.
Nicole Kelly:Tell me about this.
Jana Krumholtz:So she, this woman. It's kind of like when you meet a woman. So I knew I was going to work with this woman and I auditioned a bunch and then I finally got to. Her name is Danielle Flora. She's known as, like the comedy choreo queen of New York city. She's kind of what a what a title. Yeah, she's kind of transitioned out a little just cause she, you know, she did it for a long time but she was the resident choreographer at 30 rock building for all things comedy. So she's, she was the resident choreographer of SNL for 15 years. She did 30 rock episodes. She did like anything Jimmy Fallon, like anything in that building, and then the movies they would do like Amy Schumer movie. She was the one. So I got to work with her and then we fell in love and I got. I mean, I owe that woman. So many of my dreams have come true because of that woman.
Jana Krumholtz:Um, so I think that my first, the first time she hired me, was actually for lip sync battle. That was before any of the SNLs and before lip sync battle was lip sync battle. The audition was listed as it's a Jimmy Fallon like sketch spinoff series. That's like green lit for 10 episodes and like nobody knew what it was. It didn't have a name yet, um.
Jana Krumholtz:So I remember going to that audition and some girls leaving being like what's this for? And I don't go. This choreographer like, does so much stuff stay? Blah, blah, blah. So that became Lip Sync Battle. So I booked that and that was like the biggest, most exciting thing and we filmed 10 episodes in 10 days and then it got greenlit for eight more. So that was LA and you know, and re-auditioning, flying yourself out to LA, making it all work, all the things. And you know, re-auditioning, flying yourself out to LA, making it all work, all the things. But that experience changed my life and because of working with her for that, daniel Flora then just kind of calls you. So that's how I got to do SNL and I got to do the opening monologue. Dance with Scarlett Johansson.
Jana Krumholtz:I got to do the opening monologue dance with Elizabeth Banks and I got to do like with what's the guy's name from? He's such a famous older actor, bald white guy, JR Simmons or JK.
Nicole Kelly:Simmons, who also is a musical theater guy. He was in that 90's revival which. I didn't know. My husband was like oh, you didn't know that. I was like oh, yes, like that's common knowledge.
Jana Krumholtz:JK Simmons was in.
John Reed:Guys and Dolls this is the conversations I have at my house those are great conversations I know what I'm good, what I know what I'm looking up the scarlet johannes.
Jana Krumholtz:One's really funny and I was so nervous because I was. Yeah, it was just scary. Like you get one, it's just scary, but it's so exciting because that.
Shany Dagan:But anyways.
Jana Krumholtz:So yeah, so I've. I've been really um, all of my commercial I can say most of my commercial dance streams came true and I and especially with Lip Sync Battle, where it was a consistent paying job and I got to dance with some of my closest friends making people laugh was such a dream.
Nicole Kelly:Are you in the one with Tom Holland that I see I'm actually? You are not.
Jana Krumholtz:I'm never next to the star and I'm literally I'm right next to him, on the left, when he's I that comes up on my social media feed like weekly I wish I got residuals Every time someone YouTube that I wish I got paid, but I only get paid if someone like buys the episode Like.
Nicole Kelly:I get five cents or whatever. I mean big money. Dancing is big money, kids, if you're, if you're thinking of going into the arts. You know, this is yeah um, that's so cool, yeah.
Jana Krumholtz:So I did that. That was amazing and it moved me out to LA and I ended up staying and what's funny is how, um, uh, like I didn't. Again, I didn't have like a mentor, I guess, or you know, I was still in a phase of thinking like, oh, this, I must be doing something wrong. So, even though I had success being in LA, the world felt very different and I didn't. I didn't click with all the way the dancers wanted to be, why they wanted to dance as much as I did in New York. So a part of me started to say, oh, maybe, like, maybe, dance isn't for me out. And I actually dove so hard into acting and fell in love with acting and put myself through my own kind of grad school program with acting and I started taking writing classes and then that led to me doing my own show and then now I've actually started a theater career quite late, might I add, but I just did my first musical at 36, but I did it.
Nicole Kelly:What musical did you do?
Jana Krumholtz:stream I've ever had um a new world premiere musical of three summers of Lincoln okay just closed at La Jolla Playhouse.
Nicole Kelly:That's a big venue that's yeah, or as I used to call it, la Jolla. I definitely called it La. Jolla yeah that's amazing look, gene hackman um, which we can unpack that if we want um didn't make his first movie until he was 35, so I I am a big. I am a big believer.
Nicole Kelly:I mean, I'm about to have a chance, yeah I'm a big believer in making things happen late in life. I think there's this myth that you have to be successful. Yeah, 25 or something, like I. I was not a fully formed human at 25. And even if I had achieved what I wanted to like career. I wouldn't have known what to do with myself, and I probably would have become like an alcoholic I am.
Jana Krumholtz:You know LL Cool J was like my boss for a bunch of years, but beyond that, his motto dreams don't have deadlines has like stayed with me so hardcore from the moment of hearing it. So I just believe it.
Nicole Kelly:I love that. So now we're going to jump into all of you guys together. So you recently created a third gen collective. Can you talk to me about how this happened, the projects you want this specific collective to work on now and in the future? We'll jump into your individual shows in a little bit, but I want to specifically focus on all three of you together.
Jana Krumholtz:I think, shani, did I find you, did I like stalk to you? Yeah, that's what I did. Oh, I love it.
Shany Dagan:I love it. Yeah, tell me this, because I don't know this part of it, tori.
Jana Krumholtz:So I had been working on my show and then I know the composer for and the musician for Shanice show, luke, and so I follow him on Instagram good old Instagram and so I he posted about this show he was doing called third gen, and everything in my body was like what? And then I started looking at it and following it, being like but this, I'm wait, what? Like this is someone, this is what. And so it was. I don't remember what night, I don't remember what season I, but like I went alone to see her show. I think I only told John I felt like I was like a, like a stranger in the night, just like going. I sat by myself because I knew I was going to also get very emotional and it was going to be really intense for me, um.
Jana Krumholtz:So I remember sitting by myself in like the middle back, um, and and it was so beautiful and I was just like it felt like such a special event with someone I had never met but I I felt instantly so connected to and she did a gorgeous talk back at the end and I was like so nervous and I was like I don't know. And then at the very end, I just was like you have to, just you have to say something, and so I shared. You know, I don't even. And then, at the very end, I just was like you have to, just you have to say something, and so I shared. You know, I don't even remember. And then afterwards, her and her husband, shani and Raviv, are two of the kindest, most genuine people I think I've ever come across, and so they were so lovely. Yeah, I love you guys. They were so lovely, and so we just connected and um, and then when I did my show, shani was lovely and she came to see that. So that's how we first met.
John Reed:Yeah.
Jana Krumholtz:Yeah.
John Reed:And what's funny actually is that the show that Jana just closed Three Summers of Lincoln is actually how I came into the picture. Wait, was Eric Anderson in this show.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, came into the picture. Wait, was Eric Anderson in this show? Yeah, my husband did. We're going to cut this Wizard of Oz with his late father in like 2008. Wow, because theater geography. Yeah, because I was like because I was like, oh, he left Gatsby and like I occasionally see him and his wife in the neighborhood and I was like what are you? Doing. Yes, I figured yeah.
Jana Krumholtz:What a gem that guy is. I love that man.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, so there's like three people in theater. Anyways, back to it. So how did you get?
John Reed:involved. This is the funny thing. So I go to an audition for Three Summers of Lincoln, which is the show that Jana just finished being in, which was actually choreographed by her partner, john Rua. I had never met him before. I knew who he was. He had been in the original cast of In the Heights and Hamilton and he is a street dancer with a capital S, capital D. I am not.
John Reed:I went to that audition thinking for sure I was going to get cut first round because it was very Hamilton like and you know.
John Reed:But on another level, and for some reason he kept calling me back and I managed to get to the finals for three summers of Lincoln, for the for, like the last round, I didn't end up, uh, booking the, but he was incredibly kind and reached out to me and a couple of other people that came and auditioned for him and said, if you want to explore the style more and loved what you had to bring in the room, come to these pop-up classes that I'm going to be teaching. And I was like, well, I mean, he sees something in me that I clearly don't, so maybe I should go and explore this. And the first class I was so out of my depth and absolutely petrified and just. I was like this isn't me and stuff. But that's actually where I met Jana and she said some incredibly lovely things to me and we kind of hit it off. And then I find out that she's jewish, and not only that but before this john.
Jana Krumholtz:So john's colombian, but he's like such an honorary jew like he's. He just loves everything jewish and and is happy about it, but he, that's like one of the first things he's like. He's like you gotta meet this guy, john, and he's jewish, because he knows how I'm, how desperate I am, like there, I don't know jews in the commercial dance world, like maybe in theater, but I never had any. Jewish dance friends. So that was also like this thing. He's like he just knew that we would connect in a way.
John Reed:And then, when we talked and then realized that not only were we third gen, but also our grandparents came from the exact same town, we were like, all right, we need to get coffee, like now. So our grandparents came from the exact same town, we were like, all right, we need to get coffee, like now. And we just like went through all of our family history and all of our, and especially the fact that we were all really passionate about trying to find ways to tell you know, make our own art, because, you know, always I think about is, you know, we, we too often do, but we shouldn't wait for permission to, you know, be artists. We gotta, we gotta make the work ourselves. And I think this was particularly you know, work that actually I felt like I could make on my own.
John Reed:But then meeting Jana, and then Jana told me that Shani was going to be doing her show, an extended version, at Perry Dance Center and I was like, okay, well, I'm going to go book a ticket.
John Reed:So I went in completely not ever meeting or knowing anything about Shani, and Jana just said you got to go to this show and I was like, okay, and then it said at the in the program that she, shani, was actually looking for other third gen people if they wanted to bring their stories to her to help actually create pieces of art afterwards. And I was like, okay, this is cool. So then I ran Shanee down after her performance which also was just so gorgeous and beautiful and said Janet Krumholtz said I need to come see you and I'm a third gen and I've got a story you want to tell. And I said, and I think the three of us need to get on a Zoom together very soon, and so we did. And then we managed to actually create, yeah, like a 501c3 nonprofit which is dedicated to telling our third gen stories, also showing not only our grandparents' story but also talking about our experiences, um, being third gen as well.
Nicole Kelly:So that kind of leads me to my next question. My next question why is it important that the three G stories get told? What do you think the experiences of grandchildren, survivors, adds to the narrative and knowledge of the Holocaust?
John Reed:Why is it relevant and important?
Shany Dagan:well, I'm gonna jump please ahead and I'm gonna say um one, I think it's important to know your history. That's, that's the the baseline. Um two, I think it's important to honor your history, and I might not know English very well, but I know that art speaks to everyone. Everyone hear music, everyone watches movies, everyone not everyone, but some people go to theaters and dance is a language that speaks without words and speaks to the heart, and I feel like if we can watch something that moves us and other people can watch something that moves them, and this kind of puts us in a, in a level, like in a balanced level that no one has to know, like an unbalanced level that no one has to know words, no one has to know what happened before, but you feel the experience at the same time, then we are leveled and I think that that's a very special thing.
Shany Dagan:And that leads me to number three. Our next generation needs, in my opinion, to continue that honor to the past and to learn from the past, which I feel like we're lacking of sometimes. And so that's kind of what I wanted the third gen to be like taking those stories and telling them in a different way than maybe other people can feel and understand differently. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense, but in my head it does.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, does anybody else want to speak on that?
Jana Krumholtz:Yeah, I guess for me that is it's like that's where we all are.
Jana Krumholtz:This is a it's like we all kind of feel like there's like a bridge for why we want to do it and we all are, we all are aligned, but we kind of also land like like we're we take up this whole span.
Jana Krumholtz:So how do I like I'll just speak, I, I guess I I start from where Shani's speaking of the honoring of the, of the legacy, like I just, I think all three of us from what we were speaking about, you as well, jewish people, there's this um undeniable gratitude for life and I can't deny feeling it and I every moment, every breath in my life, and so I know that that's because, due to my grandparents so what can I do with you know the gifts I've been given to honor them.
Jana Krumholtz:So that is where this is born. But my show in particular and I'm going to continue evolving it and I will continue to make more art around their stories and my stories but this show is very particularly around healing intergenerational trauma through telling my story of it and how, you know, I don't I mean, I don't say it as directly, but six million Jews didn't die for me to be a dancer and this can sound crazy, but six million Jews also died for me to be a dance Like there's. They didn't die for any, for any reason that has to do you know?
Jana Krumholtz:but? But my place in it all? What can I do with my life, knowing my history, and how can I honor all that? They lost the best, and for me, that's living my truth and letting myself be who I am, which they didn't get that opportunity to do, so they worked so hard to survive, to then create a life. And so what am I? Am I going to choose something and be miserable every moment I'm alive to breathe? Like that's my personal journey and my personal outlook?
Jana Krumholtz:Um, so my show revolves around that discussion, and why I am so passionate about it is because I think, like Shani is saying, learning from the past, what are we learning? What are we learning from it? We can tell the stories and then I'm always like and and like we're saying it wasn't talked about in the house, how did it make you feel? Or? So now, what are you afraid of? Are those rational fears or are those fears from the past? How do we keep pushing the needle forward to further our people, to further our grandparents' legacy? Because, yes, they were survivors and like.
Jana Krumholtz:There's just so much more, and I think that every generation has their place in history and they went through the horrors our parents blessed them were the children of them, who found the bridge to live a better life and get the educations. Then they had their children and they gave us so many more opportunities. So now, what are we going to do with that? I think let's do our damnedest to live free and and fulfill our passions and purposes. You know so, and I think that that goes across cultures. I think that discussion, yeah, and then I think that leads to better treatment of humanity and each other, because you understand yourself and you're living, you know, authentically in your life. So that's where my show lives and then that's how we all kind of that's where that over section of creating this together lies john any thoughts on why 3g stories are so important?
John Reed:uh well, I, I actually just for me it's almost kind of a very much like, you know, create what, what isn't there? I actually just don't haven't seen any, really, yeah, stories, um, about third generations, which is why, in a way, the movie A Real Pain was actually such a revelation, because I was like, oh, this is a story I haven't heard before. I mean, obviously, we know that the stories of survivors and our grandparents need to be told as well, but I think what it also shows is that this was not an event, this was not an isolated event in the sense of it only happened in the thirties and forties and, you know it, it has rippled and changed the face of everything we know to be true today. And I think there is something really to be said about, about also trying to, as a way, trying to figure out who we are and what we are from that. And you know what do we do with it. I always say, I say and I say on these tours I was like it's not enough to just know this happened.
John Reed:Yeah, like you can have all the knowledge in the world, but it's useless if it's not active or if it's not put towards something, and I think, for me at least, why I'm trying to figure this out is that I I mean at least in terms of what my show is about, and I know we'll get to that in a sec but it's really just about.
John Reed:I just want to feel less alone and I want people to feel less alone and I think so much of the times, especially 3Gs survivors and Jewish people in general have felt we can be very lonely, it's a lonely people and we can feel so alone from everyone else. And I think there's also a way to tell third generation stories, because it shows like, look, they didn't win, they didn't win. We're here and to say, yeah, that this is also not only an exploration of the stuff that we carry, but again, look at the victories we've been able to achieve on behalf of our grandparents. I mean just the fact that my grandfather was able to die with having seven great-grandchildren. I mean that's everything to me and was everything to him, and it's everything to our family. So I think the voices need to be heard because it shows like, look, we're not gone and we'll never be gone.
Jana Krumholtz:Yeah, and I dove into my show. So we don't ever, we don't have to go back to visit that. But I, to add, jump onto why? Third, what? What is the third generation perspective?
Jana Krumholtz:I think that the further distance the generations get from it, different things can be revealed that were too fragile and intense to get to, having experienced it or being the direct children of it. There are conversations I can have that my mother just physically cannot, and so it is our duty, and I have, you know, there I've a sister and two cousins. I don't know how passionate or obsessed they are with it they don't have to be but it's like there are a few who are sparked by cousins. I don't know how passionate or obsessed they are with it they don't have to be but it's like there are a few who are sparked by weight. I think we carry there's like a through line in us to history that's so invaluable, and if we can speak about it and try to push humanity towards healing and crossing the bridges which is what our grandparents meant by never forget then what better gifts that we can do for them.
Nicole Kelly:Knowing now that that's what your grandmother said to you and possibly being something that might be triggering, looking back on that, why did you decide to call your show Six Million Didn't Dies for you dot dot dot? Because I wrote that this was a really striking title before I knew about what your grandmother used to say. Why did you decide that's what you want to call your show?
Jana Krumholtz:um, at the time I honestly think it was just the most honest way. It just it just the way this whole show came through me. I just let it be itself and I really tried to not get in the way. So it just was the most honest, like it just was. This is what it is and I know it's striking, so that obviously is like, but also to a fault, like I also I tried to put it up somewhere and because of what's going on with the times, they were like, can you change the title? And I was like let me sleep on it, and that's a whole other discussion or episode. And I came back and I said no, for now that is the truth of the title and so I may. I've danced with the idea of changing it because it is so intense and like semi-aggressive, but part of me, but it's what it is Holocaust story I don't think it's what it is, yeah.
Nicole Kelly:I don't think you can dumb down something like intergenerational trauma and the Holocaust to make people comfortable. People should be uncomfortable. I think this is how I feel about history in general is history is not pretty, and history is messy and it's confusing, and it makes people feel things, and trying to take that which people are right now trying to erase that does not do anybody justice Because, as John was saying, we're not only not going to learn from it, but it also creates this idealized vision of what used to be. When you whitewash something, it's like, well, it was great. It's like like no, the 50s was not ideal. Black people had no rights, jews didn't really have a lot of rights. Like not everybody had a white picket fence and, you know, 2.5 children and a dog. So good for you for not giving into that pressure. Um, because, especially as an artist, I feel like we're people pleasers. Yeah, so we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll make, we'll make it work.
Jana Krumholtz:You know we're like I'm only talking to the person. I was like oh yeah, uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah, but thank God I've learned to be like let me sleep on it.
Nicole Kelly:Which is another reason it's better to do things when you're older, because when you're 22, you're like yeah yeah, yeah, but you know, when you're getting your food, about it. Yeah, so it's spoken word and movement one-woman show with projections.
Jana Krumholtz:So, yes, there's movement pieces intertwined throughout, but as of now it's a 45-minute standalone piece, with me speaking to the audience and moving and using some projections to show the newspaper clippings and some photos and things like that yeah.
Nicole Kelly:It's great. It's a great show. Thank you, it's been produced already. Yes, you've done this. Yes, that's what I thought. And where did you, where did you do this?
Jana Krumholtz:So I premiered it at LA, the Hollywood fringe festival, and I think it was the summer of 2023 okay um, and then I did about I think I did about four or five shows out there and then I got invited to submit my show to the la women's theater festival and so I did, and then they accepted me as one of their finalists. So I got to perform a 20 minute excerpt of that of my show there in April 2024. And then I put it up, I did a. I did Macbeth at Oregon Shakespeare Festival and I just put up a very private reading of it to the, to company members there. And then I I produced one night, a one night show in New York in December of 2023, I think, and that's when Shani came to see it at Arts on Site um for some community out there. So, yeah, that the the last time I did it was in Oregon. That's the last time I shared it.
Nicole Kelly:Wow, yeah, I love, I love. I love people making art and self-producing and pushing stuff. It's a hustle man. Not everybody you know it really is. We can't all be Lin-Manuel.
John Reed:Miranda.
Nicole Kelly:So, shawnee, they both have talked about your show, which is Third Gen of Survivor Story, and it premiered off-Broadway last year. I want to talk about this how it came about, what it's about and how it ended up getting produced off Broadway.
Shany Dagan:Sure.
Shany Dagan:So, basically it's a dance memoir that is featuring my grandparents' survival stories and I'm taking both stories and presenting them at the same time on stage, but in different areas of the stage. So the stage is basically splitted by a table. The table is turning into different elements. It's like the third person in the room and it's turning into different elements as they go through the story. Luke Wygodny, who wrote the music, actually wrote it especially for the show and it was very special because it's the first time that we worked with a composer in the room. So the whole show was produced in the room all together dancers and the composer.
Shany Dagan:And how it came about. About five years ago I wanted to go. I went through my grandparents' stories and kind of rewatched it and I felt like I need to do something with it, but I didn't know what. And then, during COVID, I was like I need to dig a little bit deeper. And what am I good at? I'm good at dancing, I'm good at moving. Let's just, you know, take those stories and think how, how I can talk without talking, um? And so I got in the room and I just started moving to their voices, um, telling the stories to Yad Vashem, and that's when the idea came to me, but again, I didn't know exactly how I'm going to do it. And so when I came back to New York, I asked two of my friends if they can come into the room and we basically used their testimonies as spoken words and we laid on the ground and I put the spoken words and I said just move. And that's how we started.
Shany Dagan:And then I brought Luke in and he has this amazing song called Sorrow, who kind of guideline the whole story. We finished with the song Sorrow and the dancers are dancing that specific song. This song is a song of hope, but it doesn't forget what we went through. So basically it talks about how we're moving forward and how we're looking forward to the future, but it says we're never going to forget what happened. There's always going to be some type of journey that we went through, and I felt like that is a very strong moment to finish with, to remember that we are resilient and we are strong and we are always surviving, always. So I think that that was the most important thing to me to finish with that and not necessarily with the horrific journey that we went through.
Jana Krumholtz:And so that's and Luke is also a third gen.
Shany Dagan:Luke is also a third generation and everyone in the show is Jewish Only our associate actually, charlaine, who's not Jewish at all, and I wanted a different eye actually, so that's why I brought her and she was completely in with me and that was an amazing perspective to have someone who is not from our culture, who is not from our history, taking another look and giving her opinion and that was amazing. And about your question how it was produced, it is all self-made. My husband is a huge part of it. He helped me building the storyline from. We have three hours of each of them speaking, so we needed to cut a little bit and do a whole from a torgy um portion. So he really helped in that in that world, and he built up the video as well um, because we're also using the video and their testimonies in the background while performing um. So he helped with this and building the whole business plan for it.
Shany Dagan:And I started at the Spark Festival, which accepted us, and we started with a 20 minutes production. That's when I met Jenna and we've decided it was good enough after that to continue the work and we got a lot of really great responses. People said we want to see more, although the testimonies are in Hebrew, so I wasn't sure how people are going to accept that, but we did put English underneath English underneath. So after that we did a fundraiser and we decided just a general fundraiser, and we've decided we're going to try and find another space. And Peridans offered their space for it and we said you know what, let's just go for it.
Shany Dagan:And we put a lot of our own money into it and we, we put two nights last November, november 2024, and happily yeah, that's when we met John as well and started this collective. And now we are looking forward for a few more things that are starting to to work. We hope to have it a few more times this year and, and hopefully in the next few years, I really want to make it a whole festival of of stories. That's, that's my hope for it, but you know, big dreams.
Nicole Kelly:You got to dream big man. You got to dream big man, you gotta dream big. Yeah, john. So your show is currently in development. Correct, correct, and it is called the only ones. So is this a dance show? Is it spoken word? What?
John Reed:yeah, give me, give me the deets I in a way feel like I have stolen from janna and shani and just combined them into this show. So I have essentially tried to make it essentially, yeah, like a one-man monologue, but with dance in it. Okay, in conjunction with my grandparents, and I would have two dancers play my grandparents. Okay, essentially having the idea that because they are no longer alive, they dance, they don't speak.
Nicole Kelly:Wow, that's really powerful.
John Reed:Yeah, and I sort of am trying to sort of I'm trying to work out the structure. I had one read through actually with Jana, and Shani was unable to be there then but also provided incredible feedback of just essentially just the word vomit, first draft of just everything that I had so far. Um, and there are some, you know it's still very much you know in early stages but essentially why I called it, the only ones was and this is also in the parallels I think that I have experienced mostly in my life growing up is that sort of I always felt like I was the only one who dot, dot dot. I felt very alone and singular in most of my lived experiences. I found it very hard to connect with other people who were going through or felt the same way that I did, and I think that's also very true of Jewish people in general. I think we, like I said, I think we are a very isolated group of people and people that feel like why does this only happen to us?
Nicole Kelly:We are the chosen people. We are chosen to suffer.
John Reed:We're chosen to suffer.
John Reed:Yeah, exactly, and I think there is something that I was trying to find, which is that essentially, what happens is that we are actually all alone in our experiences because no one has our experiences, but in that aloneness do we actually find community and we actually get connected to each other because of it. And so that's what I'm trying to explore in my piece, while trying to sort of tell my experience growing up with that feeling, as well as also trying to figure out how that can sort of relate to the history of my grandparents as well as their also um lives post-war as well.
Nicole Kelly:So that's the idea all right, so this last portion is my actor studio ripoff. Um, I ask all my guests these same questions and they don't need to be, they should not be long answers, they're just supposed to be like quick little things and and I'll ask each of you can answer. So what is your favorite Yiddish word?
Jana Krumholtz:Drek, drek.
Nicole Kelly:Okay, john Shlep. How about you, shani oh?
Shany Dagan:that's a long one. It's a, it means a big what.
Nicole Kelly:That's a long one.
John Reed:It's a, it means a big what.
Shany Dagan:A glory Like it's not that it is, for example, on a man he's not that great.
Nicole Kelly:He's not that he's okay. Well, I, I like that one. I didn't mean to be a new favorite. Oh, that's fine.
John Reed:So we'll just go see the order.
Nicole Kelly:Uh, what is your favorite Jewish holiday?
Jana Krumholtz:I think Passover.
Nicole Kelly:Okay, john.
John Reed:I'm going to say Passover too.
Nicole Kelly:All right, are we going three for three? What's your favorite Jewish holiday?
Shany Dagan:Shavuot, oh Shavuot.
Nicole Kelly:She just she likes dairy. Yes, I do. Really big on the ice cream. Um, really big on the ice cream. Um, if, if you were to have a bar or bat mitzvah today, what would the theme of your party be? And for those of you that did not have your bar and bat mitzvahs in America, I'm talking about like the big theme party. If you were to have a b'nai mitzvah today, what would the theme of your party be? Jana?
Jana Krumholtz:I mean honestly as much as like dance wasn't allowed. This is what's so funny. Sometimes my theme was Jana takes center stage, which was my favorite film at the time and each table was a film. So every table was like one was West Side Story, one was Porus. So I would do the same.
Nicole Kelly:Okay, John, what about you?
John Reed:Yeah, I didn't have the sort of American bar mitzvah sort of experience, but what I loved was that the venue that it was in was on. It looked like a big Hollywood backlot. So in a way I sort of feel like I would make it more about like movies, like Hollywood movie making. Go more into that.
Nicole Kelly:Shani, how about you If you were to have a big party?
Shany Dagan:Dogs and chocolate.
Nicole Kelly:Dogs which do not mix. But I love that, I love.
John Reed:I'm a crazy dog person, all right.
Nicole Kelly:What profession other than your own would you want to attempt?
Jana Krumholtz:Someone else go.
John Reed:Okay, okay, you know, I don't know why, but I've always been like I would love to know how to fly a plane. I was just thinking that. Like to be a pilot? I do. Oh well, then just say that no.
Jana Krumholtz:but I've always wanted, not as a career, that's just something I want to know how to do, you know?
Nicole Kelly:you can learn how to fly a plane. I know. I do know, which is why I'm still like it is still a thing you can do.
John Reed:Yeah, I think being a pilot would be really cool.
Jana Krumholtz:Okay, Jana, if you don't want to be a pilot, but you still want to fly a plane, no I think it's still in the art, like a filmmaker, like a, you know, a full time, you know I get to do all these things, but to really have the profession of, yeah, like a movie producer, like running the show and getting to say, like this is going to be made and this is how, and this is how I want it, and you know.
Shany Dagan:Yeah.
Nicole Kelly:How about you?
Shany Dagan:I have so many, but I will pick two, because I can't Astronaut.
Nicole Kelly:Okay.
Shany Dagan:And interior designer.
Nicole Kelly:Good one, it's like my dog in chocolate. One of those seems more achievable than the other.
Jana Krumholtz:Yes, Okay and last. She might be going to space in 10 years, who knows?
Nicole Kelly:No comment on that you never know If heaven is real and God is there to welcome you. What would you like to hear them say?
Shany Dagan:Grandma is waiting for you. What did you say? Shani Grandma is waiting for you? Oh, did you say Shani Grandma is waiting for you? Oh yeah.
John Reed:I was going to say your dad's over there.
Nicole Kelly:Slash.
John Reed:You're making me cry, I know I know, but slash the fun version would be. That looked like a lot of fun.
Nicole Kelly:How about you?
Shany Dagan:Jada.
Nicole Kelly:Here's coffee.
Shany Dagan:Here's coffee.
Jana Krumholtz:That's the fun part. There's coffee. Yeah, I think just like thank you, you did it.
Nicole Kelly:So is there anything else that we did not talk about that you guys are like I have to talk about this.
Jana Krumholtz:Well, we do have a show coming up at Arts On Site. We're doing a night. Arts On Site is going to produce a night of our work, so we're going to do excerpts from all three of our shows and that will be our first sharing third gen collective work as a unit, which is very exciting. So the potential date is August 7th. We're about to lock it in but it might change. But you know, if you, if people just want to follow along, or if we can share that with you at a later date, we're very excited about that.
Nicole Kelly:And how would they be able to follow along with the collective to be able to get tickets to that?
Jana Krumholtz:Our Instagrams is the way Okay great.
John Reed:I know that Jenny does have a third gen Instagram.
Shany Dagan:Yes, thirdgenproject, thirdgenproject.
Jana Krumholtz:Great, amazing ThirdGenproject. Thirdgenproject, great, amazing ThirdGenproject.
Nicole Kelly:Well, assuming that I'm still alive and well, I will absolutely be there with bells on and probably drag my husband, because I drag him to everything Holocaust related. It's just how it works in my house. How fun, all right. Well, thank you all so much for taking the time to sit down and speak with me. This has been great. I am Nicole Kelly and this has been Shebrew in the City. ©. Transcript Emily Beynon.
