Shebrew in the City
Shebrew in the City is a podcast exploring all things Jewish. Combining interviews and informational episodes, join Nicole Kelly as she discusses her journey with motherhood, spirituality, and everything from Hanukkah to the Holocaust. Giving a voice to modern Jews and spreading love and joy, whether you're Jewish, Jew-ish, or not anything resembling Jewish at all, there's something here for everyone.
Shebrew in the City
"Baby, Baby, Baby" - An Interview with Jewish Fertility Foundation CEO and Founder Elana Frank
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Elana Frank's journey from Atlanta to Israel and back is nothing short of inspiring, as she intertwines her personal history with her professional mission. With roots tracing back to Holocaust survivors and tales of resilience from her father, Ilana's story is deeply moving and thought-provoking. Her adventurous chapter in Israel during the 2009 recession adds a layer of cultural richness, ultimately bringing her back to Atlanta where her passion for supporting those facing fertility challenges took root.
In our conversation, Elana opens up about the profound disparities in access to fertility treatments between Israel and the United States and how these shaped the founding of the Jewish Fertility Foundation. As we explore the foundation's expansion and the impactful Fertility Buddies program, it's clear how essential community and understanding are in navigating the emotional complexities of infertility. We also dive into the social and financial pressures individuals face and why having a dedicated support system can make all the difference.
This episode isn't just about Ilana's narrative; it's a testament to the power of support and connection. With insights into the role of clergy, interfaith inclusivity, and the importance of postpartum resources, we cover a spectrum of topics that champion empathy and understanding. Nicole also shares her aspirations, reminding us of the transformative impact philanthropy can have. This conversation underscores the resilience of the human spirit and the necessity of community in overcoming life's challenges.
TopDogTours is your walking tour company. Available in New York, Philly, Boston, & Toronto!
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Infertility Journey and Jewish Roots
Nicole KellyVisiting a city for the first time and not sure what to do . A walking tour is a great place to start . Top Dog Tours is in Boston , Toronto , Philadelphia and New York City . To book a walking tour , you can visit us at topdogtours . com , and be sure to check out our social media accounts for offers and discounts . Hi , I'm Nicole Kelly and this is Shebrew in the City , and today I am talking to Elana Frank , who is the founder and CEO of the Jewish Fertility Foundation . How are you doing today , Elana ?
Elana FrankGood Thanks for having me .
Nicole KellyOf course , this is a pleasure . I just moved , so I look terrible today , so I don't know if we're going to be using the video on this .
Elana FrankDon't knock yourself , come on . No , no , no .
Nicole KellyIt's because I can't find my makeup . I don't know what I did with my makeup and I try to judge myself up a little bit , but I don't think that's happening today .
Elana FrankYou look great , thank you .
Nicole KellySo I usually start by asking my guests about where they grew up , their Jewish upbringing , if they had any those kind of things . So can you tell me a little bit about that ?
Elana FrankYeah , sure , I was born and raised in Atlanta , georgia . I have an Israeli father and a uh , a Yaki or German mother . Um , my dad is a first , um , he's an immigrant . He came um 48 years ago . I went to Jewish day school . We were part of a synagogue , not not super observant , but very , very traditional growing up .
Nicole KellyOkay . What part of Israel is your father from ?
Elana FrankHe grew up in Bat Yam oh okay . And then his family moved a little bit more north .
Nicole KellyOkay , and why did he end up coming to the United States ?
Elana FrankKind of crazy , especially with everything going on now , but he was in an accident in the army and was in a coma for three days oh um , this is the famous story that he woke up and he spoke english . I'm not exactly sure how much of that is true , but , um , from that incident he knew he wanted to travel to america , get his degree here , and he did , and he never left .
Nicole KellyOh wow , and your mom is from Germany or of German descent .
Elana FrankNo , German descent . She grew up in Washington Heights , New York .
Nicole KellyOh , that's a little bit north of where I am right now .
Elana FrankOoh , yes , and her dad was a butcher . They needed butchers in the South , so she came in high school .
Nicole KellyOkay .
Elana FrankDown to Atlanta . Okay , so she came in high school down to Atlanta .
Nicole KellyOkay , do you know what part of Germany your family's from ?
Elana FrankOh Lord , so my grandfather was from actually Belgium .
Nicole KellyOkay .
Elana FrankAnd then my grandmother I don't know exactly in Germany , where she was from . Horrible , horrible . My grandmother came , who's still , thankfully , around 89 years old . Horrible , horrible . My grandmother came , who's still , thankfully , around 89 years old . She came from when she was like three . And then my grandfather has a horrible Auschwitz . Parents shooed him away when he was 13 and ended up coming to America by himself .
Nicole KellyOh , my goodness .
Elana FrankCrazy stories . I have a 13-year-old it's a . It's a , it's crazy .
Nicole KellyYeah , no , no , no . So you're a 4G . I guess would be if your great grandparents were , uh , in the Holocaust .
Elana FrankYeah , so yeah , what it does to our generation , that's a whole nother podcast episode .
Nicole KellyYes , I'm very . I just got into , uh , the program at Gratz for Holocaust and Genocide Studies for my master's and I'm very interested in the concept of generational trauma . I've had a couple guests who are 3Gs and there's a class I can take that has to do with the effect of , you know , relatives being in the Holocaust , and the family unit is something I'm super interested in . I've taken .
Elana FrankA Bipolar yes , my family has serious bipolar . We lost my aunt to suicide 10 years ago . She was the one who was as interested and I really think something in our DNA shifted and it's like it's in us . Yeah , it's really sad and interesting .
Nicole KellyAll right , so let's jump to something , maybe a little bit happier . I hope so . Yeah , you spent some time in Israel yourself . Can you talk a little bit about what brought you over there and what it was like living there at the time ?
Elana FrankYeah , so we're talking now , almost 16 years ago my husband and I met we got married and I it was like in 20 , 2009, .
Elana FrankRecession going on some , some hard economic times in in America . My husband had just moved from Israel in Jerusalem he's by way of Chicago American and I was like Jason , we let's go to Israel . Like we were having a hard time figuring out our place . We had met in Atlanta and we didn't like Atlanta at that time and I said , let's , let's do it . He's like I'll go back , but I won't go to Jerusalem or Tel Aviv . We're going to be like pioneers , we're going to be Israelis like the olden days . And so I was like OK , whatever .
Elana FrankAnd so we actually lived in the North and we were part of Nefesh B'Nefesh , a program that helps immigrants move , and we lived in the mountains for five years . We were Israeli like really living , not the , you know , Anglo life .
Nicole KellyYeah , yeah , yeah . That's crazy . Why did you end up coming back to the United States ?
Elana FrankSo we actually had a good life in Israel . We both had jobs in our field . I mean , we had two cars , we bought a house . That's a big deal for immigrants .
Nicole KellyYeah .
Elana FrankMany Israelis don't have two cars . They aren't buying homes , but my husband works in the casino industry and he got recruited back to America and we made our way back .
Nicole KellyAnd you ended up back in Atlanta .
Elana FrankYes , so , no , so , by way of Atlantic City .
Nicole KellyOkay .
Elana FrankI came back with a one-year-old and a six-week-old . He didn't even have his shots yet . Long story , but we ended up near Atlantic City and then Cherry Hill . He got recruited again in the Bahamas and I said I love you but I'm not moving to the Bahamas .
Nicole KellyEven the Chabad rabbi there .
Elana FrankI called him and he's like what kind of Jew are you ? I'm like we're somewhat observant . He's like don't come . He's like , if you want to raise your kids in an observant lifestyle , bahamas is not the place . And so he commuted for a while from Atlanta .
Nicole KellyOh my gosh , that's a commute . Yes , it is , but you ended up in Atlanta , where you started from .
Elana FrankYeah , yeah , nice to be around family .
Nicole KellyYes , it's definitely a good thing . So , speaking of you , know , coming from Israel with two small children , the main thing that I want to talk to you about today is your journey with infertility and you starting this great organization . So I want to start out by talking about your personal story involving infertility .
Elana FrankYeah , well , israel is where my husband and I went after we got married and thought we were going to have a million babies and it just did not go as planned . We were also new immigrants navigating socialized medicine in Israel , you know , figuring out how the system worked . And I mean we had already been married about a year by the time we moved to Israel , so , and we were not using birth control . And after like three months of really trying , I didn't understand what was going on . Went to the gynecologist quickly . She put me on Clomid . Nothing was happening . I thought I was going to get pregnant right away .
Elana FrankI was so excited , month after month .
Navigating Jewish Infertility and IVF
Elana FrankI remember my aunt is Israeli . I remember my father's Israeli . So we would go out with my cousins and all their kids regularly and she would tell me Ilana what's going on Like why aren't you having kids ? And I'm like . I didn't even know what to say and I remember she's like do you know how to have sex ?
Elana FrankLike do you need to go on a vacation . There's really , do you need to go on a vacation and relax ? Like all the things that are the worst things to say . And I was like , well , maybe I don't know how to have sex , like I really was like , am I doing it wrong ? I don't know ? Like what is going on . Ultimately she found us a doctor and I trusted her . He was a professor , which is a big deal in Israel , and I wasn't part of his insurance coverage . But we're American , we're used to writing checks , so we would go to his house , his , his private office at night , which is not so uncommon . But he started doing IUIs or like the turkey baster method .
Elana FrankMy husband would go to the bathroom do his business , come out with sperm . He would look under the microscope in his house and then I would get on the table a proper doctor's table and he would put it in me . Month after month we would write a check , but he never checked my body . He never did any medical procedures to check my body and we felt like after a while something was weird . But we wanted a baby and ultimately , after time wasted time we're like let's get a second opinion . And we did , and my tubes are blocked .
Elana FrankI am not going to get pregnant through an IUI . If anything , I could have an ectopic pregnancy which is scary .
Nicole KellyVery dangerous .
Elana FrankAnd I just it was such wasted money and wasted time and I didn't know any better . I mean , just at that time there was like no resources online . There was a baby center which I couldn't connect to and ultimately I was able to find this great doctor and because I lived in Israel and because they value families and reproductive access and they have socialized medicine , I was able to do IVF for free and ended up with two children through the process .
Nicole KellyWow , ivf is extremely expensive . It's kind of crazy that it is no cost in Israel and it's such a contentious issue right now . Even with it costing like $30,000 to get IVF , I have . I I took Clomid to get pregnant with my daughter and the pregnancy that um , and that unfortunately ended , uh , back in July . So I have a little bit of insight into kind of what you went through and but I knew going into it that there were problems because I don't ovulate regularly . So even before we got pregnant I was kind of mentally prepared to go through the whole process but thankfully Clomid worked the first month for my daughter . So , um , like the base level the basis level , the lowest level of fertility treatments , is what I was on Um , but it's , it's scary , you know , like facing that and not knowing what's wrong , and I think it's something that affects so many people . So this organization you started is amazing . Can we talk about what inspired that and how that all happened ?
Elana FrankYeah , I mean , listen , in Israel it was free , which is huge . It's tremendous . Also , I went through over a year of having to go to work , where I worked at an immigrant youth village . It was a religious community , I mean people . It's Israel also , so they have no , no filters . Um , and people were like and I was gaining weight , I was on medications while I was doing .
Nicole KellyIUI .
Elana FrankLike people were literally like asking me number one are you pregnant ? Because I was gaining weight . What's going on ? Like I would really not wait so long . Like people love to give their opinions .
Nicole KellyAnd like .
Elana FrankI didn't know what to say . It was really hard . It was super hard with my husband and our marriage . He wanted to make me happy and get me a baby and I was broken , like I didn't know what to do .
Elana FrankAnd you know , just connecting with people back in America like who are all having their babies and you know not , them not wanting to say something to me because they didn't know I wasn't really talking about it , but like I also wasn't pregnant , like what , who ? Who gets married at my age and doesn't want to have a family in our community ? Like right away , that's just wasn't who I was , um , and I was . So I didn't know how to talk to my family , like my family back in America , um , so , even though it was amazing what Israel offered , when I came back to America with two babies , I was sitting in a baby pool at a JCC with some old friends from growing up and they had their . One person had twins , another person had one child and we started talking about IVF and they're like , yeah , these are my $80,000 twins , these are my . You know , this is my child I spent so much money on .
Nicole KellyYeah .
Elana FrankAnd I was like , well , I did IVF too and it was free . And just hearing this sparked an idea . We're almost 10 years ago now and I was like , wow , I've been in nonprofit my whole life , fundraising or doing community organizing and coalition building . Wouldn't it be great if I could help these people financially ? And that's kind of where the idea started .
Nicole KellyThat's crazy $88,000 .
Elana FrankThey must have gone through two or three rounds if that was just because you do IVF does not guarantee a child at the end . You have to . Sometimes there's surgery involved . Sometimes you know lots of things can be part of the process .
Nicole KellyYeah , I think that's a common misconception that IVF works a hundred percent of the time , because even during egg retrieval might not get enough . You know there's so many different steps to the process that there's something that can I don't want to say go wrong , that cannot go perfectly , that would not . You know . The outcome would not be a baby . I think that's a huge misconception a lot of people have with any fertility treatment , but definitely with IVF . Have , yeah , with any fertility treatment , but definitely with IVF . So do you , do you have , statistically , just in case people are curious , what percentage of families experience some form of infertility ?
Elana FrankSo when I started in the biz it was one in eight and we would always nationally . So we would always . Our doctors would share with us that actually within the Jewish community it's a little bit higher , closer to one in six .
Nicole KellyReally For various reasons .
Elana FrankListen , like we're genetically a smaller population , we're marrying each other . There's some genetic factors involved . Also , we're a population that is educated , so we're going to college , we're going to grad school , then we're trying to get married and have babies and unfortunately biology does not wait and those contribute to those factors . But actually I think two years ago the statistics changed and nationally the rate is one in six . So still I think in the Jewish community it is more prevalent . But that's where we're at that's a pretty high number .
Nicole KellyYeah , that's you know I I feel like correct me if I'm wrong . My husband told me once that men are less fertile than of this generation , less fertile than their grandfathers were , for various reasons because , uh , male and male factor infertility is also something that I think people don't realize Usually , unfortunately , they blame the woman . There's something wrong with the woman , but . But the father also plays a little bit , a little bit of a part in in that as well .
Elana FrankIt's actually like you break it into four there's female factor , male factor , there's unexplained and then there's male and female , don't mesh up together . So it's like one fourth , one fourth . So really it's not , it's really not a woman's issue .
Nicole KellyYeah , yeah . I think it's important to to spread that information because , you know , people tend to blame women for a lot of things , including this , which I think is incorrect and unfair . So , going back to Jewish couples in particular , why do you think the infertility journey can be especially difficult for Jewish couples ?
Elana FrankYeah , so , and I'll correct you by saying couples , because we do work with individuals .
Nicole KellyOkay , perfect .
Elana FrankYeah , I mean single moms by choice , even single dads by choice . Now it's really a huge growing population and you know it's part of our culture , you know our first of all , like starting with intended grandparents , like new what are ?
Elana Frankwe going to have the grandkids like . Think about all the holidays that are coming up right now . What is Passover ? Passover is telling your children the story of how we left Egypt . Everything in our culture , even if you're not super observant , is we're a family based culture and the pressure is on . I mean be fruitful and multiply , Right , that's like . That's who we are . You were talking about the Holocaust . Like it's our job to you know build back the Jewish community . But what if you can't ? How does that feel ?
Nicole KellyYeah , no , that makes a lot of sense . So , going back to JFF , what resources do you provide to those experiencing infertility or , as you said , choosing to be single moms or single dads by choice ?
Elana FrankSo we say , on their path to parenthood . So we offer three main services . One is financial assistance , Two is emotional support and three are educational trainings . So the first , financial assistance money , really really important . We offer one IUI grant of $1,000 .
Elana FrankSucks are going through this Hug from the Jewish community . It is not needs-based . And then we offer up to sorry up to $10,000 grants . With all of the grants comes a discount of up to 20% from the fertility clinic in your community . Okay , and then we partner with local interest-free loan associations , Because even if you're getting our maximum grant and the clinic discount , it's still not going to cover everything .
Elana FrankSo , we really want to make it accessible .
National Expansion and Peer Support
Elana FrankAnd then , in terms of emotional support , we offer a peer-to-peer mentorship program , a Fertility Buddies program , which is now national , open to anybody anywhere in the US , and we offer local support groups as well as national peer-to-peer support .
Nicole KellyYeah , you mentioned that the Buddies is nationally . I know that the clinics and you're in specific cities , so can you tell me what you know for people listening if they're interested in your organization ? What cities you're currently in ?
Elana FrankSure , you're putting me on the spot . I'm sorry . I should know this by heart . I'm going to Jewish Fertility Foundation .
Nicole KellyIf you've got more than enough cities that you can't remember , then that's a good thing .
Elana FrankGood problem . So we are in specific communities nationally where we go really , really deep in those communities , but we also have a national program so you are able to join for emotional support and education , regardless where you're living . All right , I'll give you the rundown Atlanta , birmingham , cincinnati , cleveland , denver , detroit , greater DC , maryland , dc , virginia , miami , pittsburgh and then national .
Nicole KellyWow , how long has it taken you to get to this many cities ? The entire decade .
Elana FrankNo , we started scaling . We wanted to really understand our services and our model , so we opened in 2015 and we started expanding piloting in 2019 . Once we figured it out like for the past four years we've been growing , that's a pretty quick expansion for an organization yeah , I mean it's been a wonderful process .
Elana FrankAlso , I am excited to take 2025 , our 10th year , to take a pause . We want to go and understand our listen . We figured out the model of going into a city . Are there other opportunities to help more people nationally and we've been a direct service organization for all these years ? In order to grow and help more people , we need to also be a fundraising organization .
Elana FrankYes , that is the 2025 pivot and focus in order for us to really make a deeper impact . I have a dream of helping people from a financial perspective to really grow our impact and how much money and how many people we're helping .
Nicole KellyIt's nonprofits that cost a lot of money to run . I took some extension courses at ucla a long time ago a non-profit fundraising and it is a whole machine to keep an organization running . You mentioned the buddies program . Um is available nationally . Can you tell me a little bit more about that ?
Elana Frankyeah , sure . So the idea is that , um , we a lot , we love our social workers , we love our therapist in-house . We have a program that we created and the idea is that listen when you're going through this . Sometimes you don't want to reach out to your close friends and family all the time . Maybe it feels a burden , or maybe you want somebody who just gets what you're going through . And so we created a program . It's not about the veteran we call them the person who's on the other side . It's about you , the person who's experiencing infertility and what you're going through . And so we try to match up somebody for this approximately year-long journey , and they can be anyone to you Like you guys can kind of set your own boundaries and expectations .
Elana FrankAre you grabbing coffee monthly ? Are you talking on the phone weekly ? Do you just need to text every once in a while ? Do you want them to come to appointments with you , like , really understanding who they are and what they are ? Ideally , the geography will be where close to where you live , and the diagnosis should be similar . Gender should be similar . And now we have off , we have just opened it up nationally , meaning really , in this wonderful world of the worldwide web and zoom and phone and texting Yep , there are opportunities . I do think it's best to be local and have the opportunity to meet in person , but that's not available for everybody .
Elana FrankWe want to give an opportunity to those who are not in our communities to also benefit from this , really this support .
Nicole KellyYeah , no , I having gone through a loss in July , um , like under a very specific circumstance , it I , I'm . I don't know anybody who's gone through what I went through . So , it can be really helpful just to have someone , even for just like a check-in , who doesn't even need to talk about it . But you know , they know what you're going through , so you don't feel so alone .
Elana FrankYou need to register now . Literally go to our website and just sign up for a buddy Again , it's not selfish , it's like we get it and there are people who can really support you through this time .
Nicole KellyOh , so you talked about the different types of people who work with your organization . You mentioned doctors and social workers . What kind of team works ? You know , cohesive team works with the people who take advantage of your organization .
Elana FrankSure . So the structure of our organization is we're a non-profit , first and foremost . We have a board of directors . We work a lot with local volunteers .
Elana FrankI have an executive committee , or executive team , I should say and then in each of our locations we have a local manager . The manager is not providing the direct services . What they're doing is they're introducing the client to the right services . So if they need to go meet a therapist at a support group , they're going to make sure that they have that information . If they're going to work with a volunteer for the Fertility Buddies program , they'll hook them up and they help them through the grant application process . We have a financial qualifications committee that is assessing the grants from a financial point of view and a medical advisory council who is working number one to keep us up to date with what's going on from the medical world . It's changing rapidly and they're also looking at two things when we're considering offering a grant the likelihood of pregnancy and the likelihood of having residual embryos or extra embryos to put in the freezer because , that process is less expensive .
Elana FrankAnd then we love our graduate school social work interns . That's a program we started nine years ago with different graduate schools in New York , with different graduate schools in New York , in Georgia all around .
Nicole KellyI think that's it . Yeah , if someone was interested in , like you said , being a grad student volunteer , would they be not volunteer working as a social worker with your organization ? Where would they find information on that ?
Elana FrankYeah , sure , so they probably would do it through their graduate program . Okay , they would need to develop that relationship . They have a coordinator and we're open at this point to you know , outside of our like to talking with students we really rely right now we have three . We really love working with them . I mean it's a serious commitment , it's a serious job and it's also part of their . You know their curriculum in order to graduate from the program . But just they need to speak with their coordinator at their program .
Nicole KellyCool . So jumping to something a little more political , um , because you know , anything involving uteruses and babies has now , unfortunately , become political . What are your thoughts on regulations regarding fertility treatments ? Because I know right now they really don't exist . And you know , we hear about sensationalized stories of a single sperm donor fathering hundreds of people . My husband had a guest on one of our tours that is her father . It was the doctor who helped her mother get pregnant , was the father of hundreds of kids , and it leads to all sorts of problems and concerns . So what are your thoughts on having regulations within the fertility industry ?
Elana FrankSo Jewish Fertility Foundation is not a political organization .
Fertility Support and Postpartum Resources
Elana FrankWhat we do is to make sure that our clients have access to information in order to make the best decisions , and so we really rely on American Society of Reproductive Medicine and resolve to be the four , you know , in the forefront of working with decision makers , and you know like when everything was going on in February in Alabama and fertility clinics were closing we actually have an office in Alabama and I mean the doctors in our clinics were calling us the night before they were going to have to shut their doors , like , can you help us ? What we very quickly were able to pivot and do is offer direct support that's what we do and make sure that the people who are currently going through their treatment could quickly come and pivot to Atlanta right , like we didn't want to deal with everything going on .
Elana FrankWe're very solution oriented .
Nicole KellyWhat can ?
Elana Frankwe do the next day . We got our attorneys , our local attorneys , on an Instagram with hundreds of people . This is the situation we don't know what's going on . We know that even the doctors , at this stage , aren't returning phone calls because legally , they don't know what's going on and we just put information out there and keep our clients updated , and so that was very reactive what we do today . We actually just got a grant from the Jewish Women's Fund of Atlanta to do just this .
Elana FrankWe want to be proactive in understanding well , what are some of the states that are safer right now ? Do people need to be moving their embryos ? Should we not be creating embryos ? There are lots of questions that are coming up . We follow the guidelines of ASRM and Resolve , and you know the people who are doing the advocacy , but really work with our clients to share what's going on . And then one of the pieces that we're using some of our grant funds for are is really testimonials . That's what reporters and newspapers have been really interested in is really getting the word out that , like you know , our community , the fertility community , abortion is part of our language , unfortunately , even for very wanted people babies and pregnancies and losses and you know access to treatment and really just sharing actual human stories of family building is how we approach that space .
Nicole KellyGotcha . So I saw that your website has postpartum support resources . As me personally , as someone who's dealt with severe postpartum , I know how important this issue is as a fertility organization . Why do you think this is important to provide for families after the birth ? Because really you know on the surface what it looks like you're focusing on is getting people pregnant . At that you know . Then maybe that should be the end of it , so why do you continue resources after a pregnancy has started and has ended in birth ?
Elana FrankI mean , you know we want , just like we want to bring in healthy babies into the world and we really promote genetic screening and organizations like J-Screen . It's the same . How can you not support the family post-birth Our work is in the middle and really trying to help families grow their families but to not be able to pass along resources to our moms when there's real , you know , postpartum , post , you know , anxiety disorders that arise , would be really scary for us . So it's very important for us to share resources , make sure that moms know it's okay and when they need to seek help and what other resources are available after .
Nicole KellyAnd even beyond that . Let's say , you know someone receives a grant from you . They have a successful birth . If they would like to continue to grow their family , are they able to come back to your organization ?
Elana FrankYeah , we do offer up to two grants and we do support secondary infertility .
Nicole KellyCan you explain what secondary infertility is Secondary ?
Elana Frankinfertility . So perhaps you even had . You know you had sex and you got pregnant with your first or second , and then all of a sudden , you want additional children . We're happy and you're not having success . We're happy to step in if needed .
Nicole KellyGreat . Your website also gives some tips on how to handle going to the mikvah during infertility . Can you talk a little bit about the mitzvah of going to the mikvah and why this might be difficult for those going through infertility ?
Elana FrankYeah , as somebody who observes family purity lots of rules there but when I was trying to get pregnant for all three of my children , I would go to the mikvah and ritually immerse once a month and remember I was trying to get pregnant for so many years and it's exhausting and emotional and every time I would go there as a reminder that I got my period and I'm not pregnant .
Elana FrankIt sucked and to have people who perhaps didn't understand that as part of the mikvah community it was really disappointing . We've done a lot of trainings for the observant community , which has been helpful and well-received , but also one of the things that we do that's so special for perhaps the non-orthodox community is , or also the orthodox community is something we call the ninth month dunk , and there are certain cities that have community mikvahs where somebody who maybe haven't hasn't ever been to the mikvah can , somebody in their ninth month can dunk for , you know , an easy labor , an easy birth and then anonymously following somebody struggling with infertility , can dunk right after them and there's certain special prayers that have been created really connecting you in this moment of hope , and it's a beautiful ritual . I did it when I was pregnant in my ninth month . I did it before I was pregnant . It really is just a moment where you can like connect with all the matriarchs who struggled with infertility and kind of just feel hopeful .
Nicole KellyNow that you're bringing it up . Yes , infertility is a theme with the matriarch , so it's something that I think has been addressed within Judaism for thousands of years . So what you're doing is continuing that and it's a . It's a really beautiful thing . No , no , no , no , it's not new , it's just we have resources to assist
Supporting Infertility
Nicole Kellywith that . I , I don't know what we were watching , but I was thinking about , you know the . You know millions of people who are never able to have children because the , the medicine , didn't exist at the time , and it was actually curious about , like , the population growth in regards to fertility treatments . I'm sure if somebody has written a paper on that somewhere , I could find .
Elana FrankI don't have an answer .
Nicole KellyNo , no , I don't know . I know It'd be interesting because you know , I feel like you know , historically it's like they never had children . You know , for example , like a governess , like George Washington and his wife never had children because the theory is that he had a childhood illness that made him infertile . Maybe if he was born , you know , in 1993 , you know in 1993 , you know that that would have been different .
Elana FrankSo it's interesting that there are great procedures to remove sperm right now .
Nicole KellyReally .
Elana FrankThere are some , really there's a lot of innovation actually out of Israel .
Nicole KellyReally .
Elana FrankYeah , very interesting .
Nicole KellyIt makes sense that Israel will be kind of the innovator in that because you know , as we talked about Jews and babies being a huge thing . So , going back to the religious aspect of what you know , your organization working with the clergy you have tips on your site as well about how the clergy members can help people who are experiencing infertility . I think it is so important to be able to lean on clergy in difficult times . I love the clergy at my synagogue and when we lost our baby in July , it was like one of the first things that we did was to reach out to our head . Rabbi . Have you found that most people aren't comfortable going to their clergy members , that the clergy is maybe not necessarily knowing what to say ? Why provide tips , you know , and additional ?
Elana Franksupport . So yes to all of that . Yes , sometimes people do not feel comfortable going to their clergy . Sometimes people you know we work a lot in the interfaith population unaffiliated , like people , don't have clergy to go to .
Elana FrankAnd I think that in you know the early days , we love our synagogues and the relationships we've created . Also , clergy are used to offering pastoral care . This is not something new to them , but there was a gap . There is a gap sometimes in the information they know to offer , and so you know everything from like basic biology of making a baby is something that we try to really educate , because it's not always basic Right . There are other just speaking the language of the infertile , like what other alternatives there are , and most of them are totally fine in the Jewish community . Understanding that , understanding perhaps what is helpful to say and what isn't helpful to say and , most importantly , knowing that there are resources out there and where to guide your audience , is really important .
Nicole KellySo I want to touch on two things you just mentioned . You say you work a lot with the interfaith community , so what are the I guess qualifications you have to have to apply Because both partners don't have to be Jewish . How does that work ?
Elana FrankYeah , sure . So we accept the reform movement's definition of who is a Jew .
Nicole KellyOkay .
Elana FrankAnd so true , one of the partners needs to be Jewish . Listen , you need to raise your kid Jewish . Whatever that means to you is fine with us . There is absolutely , you know , background information that we ask for in terms of understanding what your thoughts are about raising this child Like . We want to make sure that there is a Jewish continuity element to all of this , and I'm shocked we just actually did a research project with a consulting agency about the impact that we're having within the interfaith population , who are mostly feeling isolated from the traditional Jewish community , and we're bringing them in at a really critical time in their life , providing them a Jewish experience , sometimes their first , and then , you know , they're going on to really understand the Jewish communities there for them . We're introducing them to Jewish people , jewish friends , other Jewish organizations , and the findings were really , really validating and fascinating and hopeful .
Nicole KellyThat's beautiful . Second thing you kind of touched upon what not to say . So let's say I'm not going through infertility , but I know someone who is . What are some ways that people can support family and friends who are experiencing infertility , and what should they not say or do ?
Elana FrankYeah , I'd say we actually just did a national program last night . That is recorded and on our website .
Nicole KellyAmazing .
Elana FrankAnd we had a clergy come , we had couples who experienced infertility , we had our male therapist who runs our national male support group and you know , I think one of the themes of last night was like sharing that you care , but then kind of backing off .
Elana FrankAnd you can ask , like , how can I ? Is there a way that you know I can support you ? Um , do you want me to just distract you during this time ? Do you want to go to a movie and not talk about anything to you during this time ? Do you want to go to a movie and not talk about anything , like for parents or like intended grandparents ? Stop asking me if I've , you know , thought of X , y and Z . Of course I thought of X , y and Z . Of course we're talking about it . And stop asking me where we're at in the process . Like one time you can say I am here for you whatever you need .
Elana FrankI think , like , if you're a family member or friend , you know what are things that are triggering , like baby showers and brises and kids' birthday parties , siblings' birthday kids' birthday parties , people you love like it can be really triggering . So what can you do in a moment like that , except if they say no , thank you , I'm going to opt out or sit out of this . If they end up going to one of these events , like and you recognize they're having a hard time , you're the mom or the friend or the sibling say hey , like do you want to come outside for a minute , like be really supportive . You know , check in and it's okay if they don't respond . Texting is welcome . I mean I'll turn it back to you when you had your loss , what was helpful and what was not helpful .
Nicole KellyI have friends that have consistently checked in on me and none of them have children have consistently checked in on me and none of them have children , and I feel like that's helpful because they're coming from a place of just being here for me , not from personal experience , and that's been very helpful . The clergy at my synagogue had great suggestions and provided support , you know , but also it just it's time I mean , this isn't necessarily you know , something that would kind of cross over to infertility , because time doesn't help with that . But you know , just , things do get easier , hopefully , you know . I know you probably deal with a lot of people who have losses as well , you know . Um , so you know , grief is .
Nicole KellyGrief is , uh , something that you kind of just have to work through . And grief for anything grief for infertility , grief for pregnancy loss , grief for a death of someone that you actually know it's not , you know , lean into it , I guess , is the way that I deal with it . You know I'd rather spend a week feeling sad and feeling than , you know , for five years kind of have this weird thing hanging over my head , you know . So that's my , you know , two , five years kind of have this weird thing hanging over my head , you know so . So that's that's my . You know two cents with that , um . So I'm a big reader and if I was going through the process of going through , you know , fertility treatments past what I did , I would want to look at books and do some research online . So , other than your website , are there books and resources that you direct people to ?
Elana FrankI mean so I'm , I'm the opposite that's not where I I prefer um really asking questions , okay , um working with doctors first of all to understand , like , are they the right expert for you ? So there are doctors who are like don't have the best bedside manner , versus like going to share everything with you . Um , I like to do the research about that doctor . There's a great site called fertility IQ where you can really like learn about the doctor before you go . I also recommend um like it's okay to interview two doctors . This is going to be they're going to be with you for the long haul . You need to trust them .
Elana FrankSo I I don't know , this is just me personally I prefer to trust the professionals than to come in with like Dr Google and be like I want to do X , y and Z In terms of like understanding the emotional side . Same thing , like there are so many therapists in this space who are certified in third-party reproduction or reproduction . Like we want to make sure that they have the training . They don't just say they specialize in infertility , they really understand . And on our website , there's certain criteria that we look for um and then they're they're great now , like podcasts , and they're great . I have a podcast and they're great um websites where you can really just learn , so I don't want to knock any books no , no , no , of course .
Elana FrankOver here . You'll see I have a whole like list and and we really encourage um , encourage that like library of great . But there's also so much information coming out in other ways today that I would also look into .
Nicole KellyI'm also a fan of trusting your doctors . I'm of the thought that if you don't trust your doctors and what they say , you should find another doctor .
Elana FrankAnd I'm not saying don't ask questions .
Nicole KellyNo , of course , advocate for yourself , of course , but lean into the medical professional , because I know there's a lot of people who think they know better . Like well , I saw this on the internet , yes , but this person , this is their job , but like , also , I was doing IUIs in the basement of this guy's house .
Elana FrankIt was weird and I should have . I wouldn't have known to ask the questions now , but there's so many resources today to kind of help you know what is sketchy versus not and trust your gut . Like when it comes to those things , trust your gut . If it feels icky , likely , it is icky .
Nicole KellyThere's a happy medium , I think , between being informed and trusting your doctors . Yeah , so you mentioned your podcast , so what do you talk about and how did that end up happening ?
Elana FrankYeah , so I have really incredible conversations with people , not necessarily around their own infertility journey , but there is so much going on in the femtech space , which is the space where , like I was saying about , like Israeli innovation , there's so much innovation happening today in the reproductive space and that's my jam . I love hearing about anything related to even adoption , fostering like new innovation , innovative ways to grow your family , and so we've had the opportunity to just have incredible speakers share what they're doing , how they're looking at things and how they're really helping our community .
Nicole KellyI love . I love the idea that specific fertility innovations I love that a lot of that's coming from Israel , because a lot I know and hopefully a lot of people do a lot of tech in general comes from Israel . So that's why I think the idea of these banning Israeli products is really ironic , as people are posting about it on their iPhones where the chips are made from . It's just really funny to me . So if someone is interested in donating to JFF or getting involved as a volunteer , how would they go about that ?
Elana FrankYeah , go online . We make it very easy and accessible . We do operate because of our donors and our volunteer base . All the information if you're in one of our specific locations , you can find our manager and staff information on our website . Reach out . I mean , we've met some of the best people best donors , best volunteers , sometimes both . In that way , please just reach out or info . I-n-f-o at jewishfertilityfoundationorg .
Nicole KellyAmazing . So this last part of the interview is what I like to call my version of the actor's studio . So these are short form questions , so you don't need to go into big explanations unless you want to . So the first question is is what is your favorite Yiddish word ?
Elana FrankOh my God , I have like three boys . Right now I'm trying to think Sorry , hold on , give me one second .
Nicole KellyNo , no , no .
Elana FrankI feel like my life revolves around poop and I'm trying to be , but I like felling , like I . Felling is when I really feel like my life revolves around poop and I'm trying to be , but I like felling like I . Felling is when I really feel like somebody in my world has done something that just like melts my heart . I'll get away from the poop and just like be proud .
Nicole KellyWhat is your favorite Jewish holiday ?
Elana FrankI think Rosh Hashanah coming up next week . I think Rosh Hashanah coming up next week . I think it's just again about hope and gratitude and looking forward and kind of analyzing the past year .
Nicole KellyWhich it goes along with what you do very beautifully . If you had a bat mitzvah today and you had a big party , what would the theme be ?
Elana FrankOkay , my theme , can we just say , was telephones . I am not that girl Like I think it would be about paying it forward . I really I'm doing a course at a philanthropy training at my kid's school in sixth and seventh grade and it's all about teaching our kids today about philanthropy . I don't care what interests them , it's understanding and figuring out what their passions are . To pay it forward .
Nicole KellyI love that . I love pay it forward .
Philanthropic Goals and Personal Reflections
Nicole KellyWhat profession other than your own would you want to attempt ?
Elana FrankI want to be a philanthropist . I want to be on the other side . I want to like to have an actual foundation to be able to help people , help the people . That would be really fun .
Nicole KellyIf heaven is real and God is there to welcome you , what would you like to hear him say ?
Elana FrankLike you've done your best . Oh , my God , you're going to make me cry .
Nicole KellyIt's very contemplative , that question , you know .
Elana FrankYeah , like , like give me a hug and say you've tried .
Nicole KellySo is there anything else that we didn't touch on ? That you want to talk about aspects of the organization , something about your personal story , your personal connection to Judaism , anything like that ?
Elana FrankNo , I think you've done great . I think really just making sure people who are listening , if they're going through it , they're not alone , and if people on the other side want to support our cause , reach out .
Nicole KellyWell , thank you so much for joining me . This was Nicole Kelly and this is she Brewing the City . © transcript Emily Beynon .
