Shebrew in the City
Shebrew in the City is a podcast exploring all things Jewish. Combining interviews and informational episodes, join Nicole Kelly as she discusses her journey with motherhood, spirituality, and everything from Hanukkah to the Holocaust. Giving a voice to modern Jews and spreading love and joy, whether you're Jewish, Jew-ish, or not anything resembling Jewish at all, there's something here for everyone.
Shebrew in the City
"Broadway Baby" - An Interview with Actor Josh Lamon (Part 2)
Welcome back for part 2 with Broadway Actor Josh Lamon as he takes us on a hilarious and insightful journey through the highs and lows of live theater. From a comical rivalry with Adam Lambert in a children's production to the chaos of working with real animals in shows like Big River and Finding Neverland, Josh shares unforgettable moments that capture the unpredictable magic of the stage. With whimsical stories, Josh's tales promise laughter and a glimpse into the unique challenges of live theater.
Josh opens up about the complicated relationship between social media and theater careers, discussing how this double-edged sword impacts mental health and creates pressure for actors to maintain an online presence. From positive reviews doing A New Brain, he shares the validation and confidence it provided during a difficult period. We also explore the evolution of auditions, spotlighting the shift to self-taping—a process that has democratized access while also fostering a sense of isolation among actors.
Audition stories brim with excitement and unpredictability, as Josh recounts awkward monkey mimics and memorable encounters with Tony Danza. These anecdotes underscore the resilience required in showbiz, echoing the sentiment that consistently presenting oneself as a "fierce option" is as critical as landing roles. The conversation wraps with reflections on the importance of relationships over career victories, emphasizing staying grounded and adaptable amidst the whirlwind of showbiz. Join us for an engaging episode that celebrates the joy and perseverance behind the curtain.
Check out Josh currently in "Death Becomes Her" at the Lunt Fontanne on Broadway!!
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Today's Shebn of n the City is brought to you by Top Dog Tours. Whether you're visiting Toronto, boston, philadelphia or New York City, we've got something for everybody. Visit us at topdogtourscom to book your tour today and follow us on social media for any special offers and discounts. So I hope you enjoyed that first half of Josh's interview and love him just as much as I do. As I mentioned, we had so much to talk about that we have a two-parter, so this next episode is going to be the second part of Josh's interview.
Nicole Kelly:As I mentioned before, josh is currently in previews for the new musical Death Becomes Her, which I saw on its first preview night. It was excellent. You can check that out online. Also, be sure to follow Josh on Instagram. You can take a look at some of the old production photos and get to know him a little bit better as well. So please enjoy Josh's episode part two. So you've mentioned a few of them. Do you have any kind of crazy things that have happened on stage? I think all actors have. You know they like. This happened and it was nuts or something maybe you've seen happen in a show that you were watching.
Josh Lamon:I would say the craziest thing that happened to me wasn't on Broadway. I was in a children's theater production of Big River when I was a kid and I played Tom Sawyer, and it was one of those children's theaters that had a million kids. So I wasn't the only Tom Sawyer, as a matter of fact. Adam Lambert was the other Tom Sawyer.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, he's also. Who's also?
Josh Lamon:a Jew, who's also a Jew, who's also a Jew. I grew up with him. We sang in a temple choir together for a moment.
Nicole Kelly:I love your like. Oh yeah. I can only imagine what Adam Lambert, singing in a temple choir, would sound like.
Josh Lamon:Well, what's funny is when he was young, his voice wasn't that good, and then, when he was a high schooler, all of a sudden he had the best voice in the world and I was so jealous I could scream, but at the time, when we were like 13, he was the other Tom Sawyer, the character. Tom Sawyer sings a song called how About a Hand for the Hog?
Josh Lamon:And it's very quick, very rapid and, for whatever reason, they had us holding a real pig as we sang the song. So it was my. I think it was my only performance as tom sawyer. I was not the favorite child here. Um was a matinee and I'm holding a pig like a baby pig a pig, not, I mean, I was 13, ish, 14, who knows.
Josh Lamon:Yeah, it wasn't like a huge pig or anything, but it was a pig, a holdable pig. And um, halfway through the song, the the pig shit my hands. Am I allowed to say that word?
Josh Lamon:yes, yes and, uh, I froze and I blanked on the rest of the song and the ending of the song, ironically, is Thank you, and I just skipped to the end. I just looked at the conductor and was like Thank you. And I walked off stage just crying and there's Adam Lambert giving me the slow clap going Bravo, josh, bravo, crying. And there's Adam Lambert giving me the like slow clap going, bravo, josh, bravo. And I just freaked out and it's funny, I think that's what started like our, our childhood, like riff against each other, but then we ended up doing Wicked together years later, and like he was lovely understudy, right?
Josh Lamon:yes, we we'd call it shiero when adam went on and um, I love adam so much. And then adam obviously did american idol and is now like lambert, yeah with with queen yeah, I'm so happy for him. He's a.
Nicole Kelly:He's a incredible human there's someone that we know that did, was it? She did Gypsy? Or what show at Tuacon? Oh no, it was some show, Was it Gypsy? And they used a real lamb for a little lamb. Yes, that was my production, but Tuacon contracts are like five months, so the little lamb grew and by the end it was like this giant lamb and she's singing little lamb to like this full grown lamb.
Josh Lamon:Yeah or sheep.
Nicole Kelly:I guess it would be Sheep. It would be, at that point, little sheep.
Josh Lamon:That's hilarious.
Nicole Kelly:Animals on stage are not a good idea.
Josh Lamon:No.
Nicole Kelly:I love dogs and I love shows with dogs, but the part of the problem is you never work with dogs and children because they pull focus, because you don't know what they're going to do. So as an as an adult, you don't want to be on stage with animals or children because, like when bruiser comes on and legally blonde, you're like what's the dog gonna do? And then I feel like you just need to limit your time with the animals, because there's, I mean even the most trained animals are could be unpredictable though those animals are trained within like an inch of their life.
Josh Lamon:Most of the time, the dogs that they use for Finding Neverland were not trained. They came from an animal sanctuary and it was their first time on stage. Harvey Weinstein, the head producer of the show, didn't want to pay for the big Bill. Whatever his name is, who does?
Nicole Kelly:Bill Berloni, yeah, who does all the Broadway animals and he gets rescue dogs but he actually trains them.
Josh Lamon:Yeah Well, this company, poor Diane, would be sitting in the house during tech with a god mic and Bambi was the dog's trainer and she'd be like Bambi, Bambi, can you get the dog to look at Matthew and play the lead? And Bambi, bambi, can you get the dog to look at Matthew, play the lead? And Bambi would come out on stage and be like no, he's a dog, he's a dog, I can't do that, he's a dog. And then, like she would have us, like hold meat in our hands to get the dog to do things, or like come with us and like when your hand smells like meat for weeks on end and you're like I'm going to die alone.
Josh Lamon:People are like you're so lucky you're on Broadway and I'm like, yeah, and I smell like beef.
Nicole Kelly:Hi ho, the glamorous Broadway is not glamorous. No, it's not. I feel like people think it's super glamorous. It is a lot of work with meat spelling hands.
Josh Lamon:Yeah, and you're carrying meat in your pocket Beef.
Nicole Kelly:Hoping that a dog that's not trained will do what it's supposed to do. I love the dogs in the shows. When I was in London with my mom and sister, we went and saw Lady Day. It was actually Audra McDonald's last performance.
Josh Lamon:Oh, she's so good.
Nicole Kelly:And we were at a pub across the street before the show and the dog handler walked out with like three chihuahuas and I was like I'm going to follow the dogs my mom's like what is wrong with you? I was like I want to follow, I want to go see the dogs. Yes, because that that show was so fancy it had understudy dogs. That's when you know you have made it. And it's also funny because I haven't done a show with dogs but Patrick has. He's like the dog has a better resume than me because they're so specific. But the best thing to do is, if you're an actor is to be a handler, because then they want the dog and they have to give you a contract as well. So that's where the real money is yeah.
Nicole Kelly:They contract as well. So like that's where the real money is. Yeah, is they? They pay more for the dog, um, than for you. Kind of going back to what we were talking about, like with swings, you've also been the understudy in several shows. Can you kind of talk about exactly what that means and what the experience of being an understudy on broadway is like?
Josh Lamon:sure, when you're an understudy on broadway, that experience means you're gonna have a doctor who gives you a prescription for lorazepam so you can calm down. Often You're going to have a restaurant in Midtown that knows what you drink. It's wonderful. It's also terrifying, at least the first few times that you go on. You also might not go on. You never know. Dep depends on who you're understudying. But, um, it's tough because you're doing eight shows a week and then thursday and friday you're also at the theater rehearsing all day. Um, but then when you go on, it's, it's magical. The first time is always magical because everybody is supporting you. The third time not so much. Everybody's used to it. Then they're like this guy usually sticks out his right hand and not his left, can you do that please? And it's like, oh, yeah, sure, okay. But it's also exciting.
Josh Lamon:When I understudied Brooks in the prom, it was fun because I was a principal role in the show, but I was also the leads understudy and so it was tricky because sometimes on stage I would watch him when I'm still doing my job and doing the scene, but really I'm focusing on what he's doing because I can't watch the show. So this is my opportunity to learn. And then there was a moment where I was sitting backstage at intermission. I always sat in this quick change booth because the Longacre Theater, there's nowhere to go and I would read my book, like in the middle of all these costumes, and the stage manager, glenn, ran in and he was like you're on for Brooks at intermission. I was like shut up and he went no, no, no, no, no, you're on for Brooks. And literally I was like okay, bring my costumes down here and bring my lorazepam. And they did.
Josh Lamon:And, um, I had to go on stage for the genius Brooks Ashmanakis at intermission and when they they announced it, you could hear the audience be like oh you know, which is fine, I get it and, um, I think, just to put their minds at ease, the first thing that I did when I went on stage the character was emma, who I was supposed to talk to, and I was like emma, it's me, I know I look different and uh, the audience, like, was then on my side and they erupted in applause and it worked out. But uh, yeah, being an understudy is fun, rewarding and stressful it's.
Nicole Kelly:I I've never understudied, but I feel like it's so different from being a swing because, like you said, you can't watch. So stress, stress We've talked a little bit about this personally and a little bit in the interview that social media has become such an important tool for actors and this is not something that existed when either of us started performing. So what are some of the challenges of being a professional actor in such a social media-forward world? Started performing, so what are some of the challenges of being a professional actor in such a social media forward world? Because I know there's some producers that want, like, a specific social media following in order to hire you, which is bananas to me because, you're not the producer.
Nicole Kelly:It's not your job to promote the show.
Josh Lamon:I think there's a little bit less of that now, which is good, because I think people have learned that just because you have a following, that doesn't mean that you're gonna sell tickets yeah like there was this big surge and like, oh, we gotta hire a tiktok star or something and it's like great and the show flopped because a tiktok following you're talking about like they have a bunch of 13 year old fans from all over the world.
Nicole Kelly:13 year olds don't have money to buy broadway tickets, period um most people don't have money to buy broadway tickets, definitely not 13 year old, same um, but it's, I think, for me and my journey.
Josh Lamon:It's a little complicated because I really don't like social media. It makes me uncomfortable. I post when I have to. I I also feel weird. Posting I don't too. I also feel weird posting.
Nicole Kelly:I don't want people who aren't working to feel bad. If I'm working, that's a real thing. Because sometimes when I'm depressed, I'll look on the kind of search for Instagram and it, just because of the algorithms, will be like all these people and wicked and I just will like it makes it's a real thing. I feel it.
Josh Lamon:You know, when you're not working and you see people working, you're kind of like yeah, also, what you're seeing is the glamorous side you're seeing if it's like one of those stupid tiktok reels of like this is my day for a two-show day and it's like everything looks so perfect, but really it's not, no, and they're not showing how how many auditions they didn't get to get this show.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah.
Josh Lamon:But also the people that post themselves like here are my you know self-tape bloopers. I'm just like, so you're bragging about all the jobs you're not getting online, like that's how it makes me feel. I just social media just rubs me the wrong way.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah.
Josh Lamon:And I wish I wasn't sort of addicted to it. It's a problem because and it and it.
Nicole Kelly:Like you know, talking about mental health of actors in general, it's hard enough when you know back in the day would find out through the grapevine someone got a role that you didn't. But now you're not only seeing that, but people you don't know and you're, you know you're comparing yourself to everybody, which is an actor's favorite pastime and it's so hard, but it's become such an important part of performing and I think just being a professional in general doesn't matter. Whether you're like a sex therapist or an actor like you need to have some sort of following in order to yeah, do everything and advertising is important and I use that.
Josh Lamon:But um the older I get, the less I post, also the less like personal stuff yeah sort of post. Um, you know? Um, oh, thank you, patrick, he's bringing me water. Um, yeah, so, but social media, it is important, but I think it's also important to um know what you're posting and to be sensitive towards other people. And it's great to be like, hey, I'm doing this show, but, um, you don't need to constantly like. I think some people that becomes their self-worth yeah, well, that makes sense.
Nicole Kelly:So, speaking of self-work, you're one of the few people who actually got a positive review from ben brantleyley, because he's kind of known for like pooping on anything, even good things, he doesn't like. How did that feel? That was amazing.
Josh Lamon:Are you kidding me? That was just like. I forget exactly what he said, but it was. I think it was for A New Brain at City Center, which I also saw oh, it was one of the best experiences ever and for like to get that sort of validation. At that time I was working for harvey weinstein. You do not get that kind of validation from from that man. No, and um, he wasn't even gonna let me go do a new brain. I had to. I basically quit fighting, neverland. I said, said fine, here's my notice. And then they came back and we're like, okay, you can go do that, but then come back. You know, but that was how I was being treated. And then all of a sudden, ben Brantley is liking me Like it's nuts. It's wild. I'll never get over it.
Nicole Kelly:I love that you got a positive review from. Like the most harsh critic in probably the. There will never be a Ben Brantley theater. He's not beloved in the New York City theater community.
Josh Lamon:I didn't say that that was Nicole. It's fine. If I never work ever again as an actor, which I'm not, and it's all because of that, which I'm not even like actively pursuing right now I owe money to equity, so I couldn't even audition. I think I owe money to equity. I think everybody owes money to equity.
Nicole Kelly:It's like a $1,200, $1,400 initiation fee and they're like give us this much money every so often and it's like, guys, we're not working.
Josh Lamon:There's 2% of the union working at one time.
Nicole Kelly:Like calm down. So, speaking of working, you've also done a lot of film and TV work. So for those of us listening, for those of us listening that have never, that are not actors, what's the difference really between film and theater auditions?
Josh Lamon:Oh well, I mean it's changed also. It's changed drastically. It used to be you would go into a casting office and do it with a casting director. They'd give you feedback, You'd do it a couple times and that was the day. And what was awful about that? Let's say you had two or three auditions that day. One of them is for a CEO type and the next one is for a bohemian type CEO type and the next one is for, like a bohemian type, to walk around the city carrying all your stuff three-piece suit, you know, a dirty scarf for the bohemian, whatever, and finding a place to change it was a nightmare.
Josh Lamon:Now it's all self-tapes, meaning that you have to do them at home, which has its benefits, and also is very lonely because you're not getting feedback. It feels sometimes like you're sending them out into the ether and not getting a response. But also there are bonuses A lot more people, auditions are much more accessible because of self-tapes for many groups of people, which is wonderful, um, but so that's really. I mean also it's just more subtle. You know, theater has a theatricality to it.
Josh Lamon:Where film they don't want to watch you acting, they want to watch somebody being yeah and that is a talent and it is very difficult and some people are very natural and terrific at it and other people are not. I would say it is probably my favorite medium. I love working in film and TV. I think it's so much easier. The money is much better.
Nicole Kelly:Yes.
Josh Lamon:The hours suck. But you're also like. I work a lot in comedy, and what's hard about doing a long-running show on Broadway when you're trying to make the same joke land for the 500th time, that's hard. When you just film it for a day, like you're done, you never have to worry about it again, and so I think that's sort of what I love about it.
Nicole Kelly:They're different mediums. I've seen people who have won Academy Awards on stage and it's not happening. Yeah, so I think you know being like you said, they're so, so different. Do you find because we talked a lot about some of the shows you didn't haven't talked about, you know you've done more than we've talked about Do you find there's a downside to being a more well-known performer within the Broadway community?
Josh Lamon:Well, it's that's interesting. I don't necessarily feel like well-known outside of you know, the theater community, I guess. But it's there's positives and there's negatives. Sometimes it's like, oh, I feel on top of the world, I know I've inspired people or I don't have to audition for this, I'm just being asked to be a part of it. And then there are other times when it's like, especially with the pandemic, which was just so brutal for everybody, but I think specifically for theater workers, for everybody, but I think specifically for theater workers where you're like, oh, I haven't worked in a while and I feel like I'm being forgotten, or I feel like people think that I'm failing, or you know, it's really just, it's easy to beat yourself up emotionally speaking. Easy to beat yourself up emotionally speaking. Or like, oh, I played principal roles, now I'm doing ensemble again and do people look down on me for that? And the sad thing is that, yeah, there are going to be some jerks who do treat you or talk about you differently, and there are going to be some. The majority of people are very kind and they get it Like a job is a job I was doing one of my first jobs out of the pandemic theater-wise was in the ensemble of Dear World at Encores and this show fan I forget his name but he's a lovely old man and I know he meant well but he waited for me at the Sage store before the show and was like I just want you to know that this is beneath you.
Josh Lamon:And I know that he meant well. But it really hurt my feelings and I was like it's beneath me to have a job, it's beneath me to to what? Like I'm lucky to be here, I'm lucky to be in this caliber of a show. Yes, I'm not doing much, but am I making a living? Am I able to pay my bills this month? Am I able to get insurance, weeks after losing my insurance twice during the pandemic? So it is not beneath me, but you know. Like it is not beneath me, but you know, like it just it really hurt to hear that. So I think that's sort of the downside is people just don't get it. They don't get how hard it is. They don't get that there is no direct path. There is no book that's going to teach you all. It is random, it is luck, it is talent meets, opportunity meets. You know, who knows what Do they like you? Is your hair the right color. You know, you just do not know.
Nicole Kelly:It comes down to a lot of arbitrary things. You know, I think my story I talk about a lot is there was a director who didn't like the dress I wore the first time he saw me at an audition and that was the end of that. I hate that person. Well, he's dead.
Josh Lamon:So he saw me at an audition, and that was the end of that. I hate that person. Well, he's dead. God hated them too. You can cut this, patrick.
Nicole Kelly:No, leave it, Let the people know.
Josh Lamon:God took Yom Kippur seriously that year.
Nicole Kelly:He was like you are not.
Josh Lamon:What did you say about that dress? No book of life for you it was a cute dress I bet it was?
Nicole Kelly:It was turquoise. What advice would you have for someone who's interested in a career as a Broadway performer?
Josh Lamon:Oh, this answer has changed so many times over my life. I feel like people really want me to say, like, just go for it, shoot for the moon, you know, and yes, but honestly, like in my 40s, the reality is is there anything else that you want to do?
Nicole Kelly:And this is something I hear often from a lot of people If you can see yourself doing anything else, do that.
Josh Lamon:Do it there is if you're doing this for a living, there has to be an insane drive within you where this is the only option period, because otherwise it just is not worth it. You go through so much rejection, so much pain, you are so poor all the time, and even when you're working like yes, yes, people go wow, you're on Broadway, you're making this much money, and it's like for six months. So what I'm doing in that six months is saving money to make the rest of my life a little less miserable, you know. So that's what I mean. If you, you can still do theater. If you're not a professional, you can still perform everywhere. There are so many performance opportunities. You don't have to make this your life If you want it, if it's just there are no other options.
Josh Lamon:And I relate to that because that's how I was take as many classes as you can, as many classes as you can. Find your community, because we are often told that these people are our competition. But no, we are only at competition with ourselves, because us getting the job is not in our control. What's in our control is showing up, prepared, passionate and present. Everything else is not in our control. So up, prepared, passionate and present. Everything else is not in our control, so that is your success. But, honestly, take as many classes as you can, meet as many casting people as you can. You're going to spend a lot of money on these classes.
Nicole Kelly:It's so expensive it's so expensive.
Josh Lamon:But if this is truly your journey, really just take as many classes as you can, be open, be strong, find your community and really practice self love and, um, also like even even for us big girls like you know, move your body, get, get you know, work out and stuff because you can be big on broadway. But it's, it's not easy it's physically, it's very physical.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, so can you talk a little bit about your current project and how you got involved with that? Yeah, I'm very excited me too.
Josh Lamon:It's, uh, one of my favorite movies. Come to screen, death becomes her the musical and it's starring, uh, my, my loved ones, jen samard, megan helty and christopher uh, christopher sieber, I almost said fitzgerald, sorry different christopher yeah, and it was funny.
Josh Lamon:I uh started. I got an offer for the for the first reading and initially I was like I don't want to do ensemble, I think I'm going to say no. But then I looked at the team again and I was like, actually, I'm obsessed with this film. Like, yeah, yeah, I want to do this. And I did it. And that led to a much more, a much bigger version of the reading where, like, you had a band, you had the fancy mics, it was huge and it was also so cool because it was so hush hush and everybody that I knew in the industry was trying to get in to see these presentations. And the fact that, like, my agents couldn't even get in was like, oh, this is, this is cool. And then I had to audition to go further with it, which meant going to dance calls and at the time I was working on development for the La La Land musical and trying to get them being like Hi, I know that we have 29 hours to do this, but I need to go away for five hours to go dance and sing. Oh, and now they want me to come back tomorrow, is that okay? And hoping that it worked out. And I wanted it so badly and I was very lucky and I got it.
Josh Lamon:And then the workshop was a dream come true. I love this cast, I love the creative team, but it was also hard. There's dancing and there were moments of dancing that were out of my, I guess, out of my level of expertise, and I literally went to the associate choreographer and I was like, hey, this dance move I can't do. I'm trying and I will get better at it, but I just want you to know. And they were very like thank you for saying that, we appreciate that.
Josh Lamon:But then after that that, there was the wait to see who was going with it to Chicago and not everybody got accepted and we waited for a long time. I want to say we waited for like two, three weeks and that was they. They held another round of auditions and saw everybody in New York, and so there's that feeling of like it is us. But now they're searching everybody, searching under every rock, every stone, scraping the bottom of every barrel, just to make sure that it really is us before they spend the money on it. And yeah, but it's a dream come true, the show is fantastic, it's so funny. Plus, like Megan Hilty and Jennifer Samard on stage together. It's just two geniuses on stage. Like you can't do better than that. It's really amazing.
Nicole Kelly:Okay, so I want to know about a crazy audition story. We all have a crazy audition story, like a terrible audition or crazy good audition. Like mine is they were doing a production of 42nd Street out near in LA where my parents lived, and I'm not a tap dancer but the director, john Engstrom, who was in the original cast of 42nd Street, was my tap teacher, so he knew me and I was like I just have to get through this tap combo and I'll be fine. And I did good on the tap combo and then they had everybody come in to sing and I was so excited that I got through the tap combo. I blew the singing part, which is not my thing, and I didn't get it, but I ended up getting that fiddler I talked about so it worked out.
Nicole Kelly:It worked out fine, but I love people's like crazy audition stories because everyone has one sure I mean yes, yes, there there happen crazy stories.
Josh Lamon:I guess the one of them for me or one of two was the first one is disney was trying to see if they could put the jungle book and make that into a big show they would have had to do like a lion king thing who knows, but they were doing it in chicago and I went in for king louis they're like and, but it was very strange.
Josh Lamon:I think m to be like you, but it was very strange. I think Mary Zimmerman was directing, it was very abstract and they had us reading all these weird poems from the book or whatever. And I'm waiting to go in and the casting director comes out and she goes hey, are you ready to go? And I was just like yeah, yeah, she was like okay, um, walk in like a monkey. This is josh flamin, everybody. And I was just like what, okay? And though you can't see me listening audience at home, I just awkwardly like walked in, like what I thought a monkey would with an embarrassed look on my face.
Josh Lamon:Another similar thing was I went in for Honeymoon in Vegas to replace somebody. It ran long enough that they had to erase once. Oh no, this was from their out-of-town at Paper Mill.
Nicole Kelly:Oh, okay, I was like it didn't run long enough for them to replace people. No, they had a very short run sadly. To be fair, there was a song about skin cancer.
Josh Lamon:Was there. I don't remember that.
Nicole Kelly:Because the whole premise is that oh right, I remember that. That the leading lady looks like his wife who died. And he sings a song about how he should have gotten her out of the sun. Yeah Right, so there's a song about skin cancer.
Josh Lamon:As there is in every great musical, of course.
Josh Lamon:But I was going in to play like tony danza's sidekick or something, and it was high stakes. They were looking for somebody. Immediately there were like 50 people in the room watching you and um casting comes out and they're like, hey, are you, are you ready to come in? And I was just like, yeah, yeah, I think sony is great. Um, uh, you're reading with Tony Danza. This is Josh Lehman, everybody and Tony Danza is like, hey, he's this wild energy that I wasn't prepared for. Nobody told me that I was going to be reading with Tony Danza and I absolutely failed. And then, uh, they had me do the song and he was behind everybody in the room like making wild gestures at me, like trying to like make me I don't know hype me up or something, and it was so distracting and I just failed and I just wanted to ask for my resume back.
Nicole Kelly:Those are expensive. Man Headshots are expensive, girl Headshots are expensive and actors are poor. I know it's like $100 for like 25 of them or something obscene.
Josh Lamon:Yeah, but those were sort of like the crazy. Those were sort of the crazy auditions of just like being put in an awkward situation all of a sudden.
Nicole Kelly:I had something similar happen to me. They were doing a production of Robber Bridegroom in LA and they were like, pretend you're a bird. And I'm like what the fuck? No, you pretend you're a bird. You pretend you're a bird Jerk. And I've heard of directors as well, who will ask for weird things in the room just to see if you do them or will listen to them yeah. And that's kind of like a mind play game that I don't think is necessary.
Josh Lamon:It is, and I agree for the recent for the who's Tommy revival that's coming in. I was auditioning for for uncle Ernie a bunch, and uh, the director does, who I think is brilliant. I've never worked with him before. He was like no, at the end of the song, uh the song, uh, you know what happens, is he? Uh, he's so disgusted with himself that he runs outside and he throws up and then he takes a giant chug of you know out of his flask and all this stuff. And so I finished the song and for those of you who don't know the who's tommy, uncle ernie is does something terrible to tommy, um, and so I finished the song and there's silence in the room and so I was like, oh I better do what he wants.
Josh Lamon:And so I pretended to like go throw up and then drink heavily and like I did this, like I don't know like three minute, like silent scene with myself as they watched, and then more silence and he goes. You know, in my entire career nobody's ever, you know, done what I've told them would happen after. So thank you for for showing us what that would look like. And I was like, oh so, I wasn't supposed to, you were all just being silent that's so weird yeah, so strange. Auditioning itself is so weird.
Nicole Kelly:It's such an unnatural thing, it's awful. It's, and there's these weird rules that so strange. Auditioning itself is so weird. It's such an unnatural thing, it's awful, and there's these weird rules that you're just supposed to know. You know, it's just not natural.
Josh Lamon:No.
Nicole Kelly:It's not a natural thing, it's bizarre. And I feel like I'm such an over-preparer that if I don't over-prepare that I don't I get in my head.
Josh Lamon:And don't I get in my head. And then they ask you to do other stuff and I'm like, but I didn't prepare for this. I'm the same way though. I'm like, okay, I'm going to rehearse it. As if the reader is on the right side of the room now, on the left side of the room, now they're up with me now.
Nicole Kelly:I'm looking at them like, yeah, I, yeah, I do everything that I can we talked a little bit about rejection and, um, kind of the difficulty of that. Do you have any advice for someone who's facing a lot of rejection but is not quite at that point where they're? And I love these stories that you told. I feel like I hear a lot of people who are like I'm gonna quit, and then they end up getting their role.
Nicole Kelly:But a lot of people. Myself, I struggle with this. I think a lot of actors do. What would be your advice to somebody about how to deal with rejection?
Josh Lamon:Be so kind to yourself Because, honestly, like it really has nothing to do with you. If they want you, they want you. If they want somebody else, they want somebody else. It's not personal, it's just it. Maybe it's a look, maybe it's they know them, Maybe who knows? Maybe it's a look, maybe it's they know them, maybe who knows. So, like I said earlier, what I do a lot of audition coaching and what I tell people your job is to give them a fierce option. That is all your job is is to present you are being 1000% successful. You are being. You are a successful actor here in the city, because the results do not equal your success period.
Nicole Kelly:And I feel like also part of your, I've been told your job as an actor is not to book shows, it's to get callbacks, it's to get just to it's to let casting know that every time they bring you in, you are going to give them the fierce option that is you.
Nicole Kelly:Because casting directors also those of you not familiar with kind of how it works is usually you don't get to the actual creative team until you've been, you know, okayed by the casting directors. So when they okay you they are also risking their reputation and trying to bring the best options so that they continue to get jobs yeah so I mean, it's there's just so much.
Nicole Kelly:And I love that you're talking about how, it's not you, because I feel like you know we also have to kick into account a lot of times things are precast and they're just auditioning because the union requires it. It's, there's just so many variables but it's still, it's hard. It's really hard to be kind to yourself yeah, so it's, it's still.
Josh Lamon:It's hard it you are emotionally and taking care of yourself, and maybe that means I'm going to take myself to a movie today, or like one of my rewards is I don't love fast food, but McDonald's has the best Diet Coke in the world.
Nicole Kelly:They have their own formula.
Josh Lamon:The best diet coke in the world.
Nicole Kelly:They have their own formula and sometimes if I'm feeling like low after an audition, I'm like I'm gonna get myself a mcdonald's diet coke and that is my treat and that is some self-care in that moment um I've also heard about like letting it go, and this is something I'm really bad about, because I start to like fantasize about doing a show and I kind of get all on board with it, yeah, and then I can't let it go.
Josh Lamon:Yeah, you have to let it go. You have to find ways to um, like what I do. The sides Um, as soon as I'm out of the audition, I throw them away. If I have to reprint them, I'll do it, but I'm not going to count on it. That energy is not coming with me anymore. It is, it is done. Goodbye.
Josh Lamon:And onwards and upwards, because you know, what I've learned is, when I first came into this industry, I was a little obsessed with it. Every, all of my self worth was wrapped in to when I was working, and it was like that for about 20 years until the pandemic hit when, all of a sudden, all of that was gone and I was alone in my apartment, feeling worthless. Um, so that there's so much more to life than than our success at our careers, whether it's performing, whether it's, you know, underwater basket weaving or being a lawyer. What matters are the people in our lives. And, um, you know, underwater basket weaving or being a lawyer, what matters are the people in our lives. And you know, I'm very, very lucky to have an incredible boyfriend that I love with all my heart, and even when I'm having those bad career days I'm like, but you know what I'm not sharing my life with a production of rent or whatever Like this is who matters to me.
Nicole Kelly:And that's one thing I think also about, about I'm getting closer to the mic because Patrick yells at me about this, uh.
Nicole Kelly:I think that's also something that a lot of people don't realize is. You talked a little bit about being sad when a contract ends, when a show ends. There's a deep depression and it's kind of a part of your life. It's now depression and it's kind of a part of your life. It's now over and it's not gonna keep you warm at night. So you know, it's nice to book shows, it's nice to be doing them, but at the end of the day they always end.
Nicole Kelly:So you need those relationships yeah is there a show or shows you've auditioned for that you feel like you nailed it and you still kind of like, ah, that's the one that got away because they'll do those things in 54 Below. It's like parts I didn't get and people kind of, I think, still kind of hold on to some of these auditions.
Josh Lamon:Eight million of them. I'm also a psychopath in the sense that sometimes at these auditions I'm like, well, who else are they going to cast? This is me, this is just me. And I get into this weird mindset of like well, if they don't cast me, they're idiots. And like there was this job that I was up for where I really felt as like this is me, there is nobody else who can do this. And then they cast, thinking about the you know, the bigger guy community, and then they cast this you know Asian twink, and I was like, oh, that wasn't me at all. No, but yeah, you get married to the idea of things, but you just have to learn to let go. And there are so many roles that I wish came my way but or that I was convinced we're going to.
Josh Lamon:I remember auditioning to replace for one of the managers in Phantom of the Opera, which I've been a Phantom fan for, you know, since I was a kid, and going into the audition it was so cocky. I was like who else? This is me. And I went in and then my friend, bradley Dean, who got it, was in, I think right before me, and hearing him sing like he has an opera voice. I was like, oh shit, it's not me, it's him, and sure enough he got it. But there's always going to be the ones that get away.
Nicole Kelly:Do you go in long run? Because I'm always curious about this, because I used to coach with Ann Nathan and she said something like she was up for Madame Morrible and the person who got it knew, knew um joe montana yeah like from childhood and I was like, well, why wouldn't they go back and like cast you after she left?
Nicole Kelly:if you're the second choice, like why is that something that doesn't happen? Like if you don't get it, you don't get it. I know I've heard stories about people being brought back, but like sometimes, who knows?
Josh Lamon:who knows? I think ann is a genius. I love her and I'm shocked that she hasn't been moreable.
Nicole Kelly:I know right Now that you brought it up.
Josh Lamon:But you just never know, there have been shows where I was like for me Chicago Amos in Chicago. I was up for it a bunch and then I was told well, walter, bobby just didn't really respond to you at the end of the day where it's like that's fair enough, but I haven't been called back in since for it, and that was like 10 years ago. Now I'm at the point where I'm like I think I'm a little bit more appropriate for now, but maybe that ship has sailed, I don't know.
Josh Lamon:So, interesting that the casting process is bananas. Things make very little sense no-transcript.
Nicole Kelly:we were talking about being parents and that happening and someone said theater's always going to be there. Theater's the kind of thing that if you take a bit of a break they're not going to be like, well, where the hell were you? For 10 years I've had people even ask me you know, you know kind of my journey and things like that. So I think it's something you can always come back to if you want to.
Josh Lamon:Yeah, you know. Perfect example Courtney Collins, who played one of the principals in the prom. She went to Juilliard, she, her roommate was Laura Linney and they graduated and all that stuff. And then she said you know what, I want to move back to Georgia and I want to get married and have a family. And she did. And then years, years later, prom goes to Atlanta for the out-of-town, she auditions as a local performer, gets cast as one of the principals and then next thing you know, and you know by now her kids are mostly grown up, she's making her Broadway debut at 50. You just never know. So you know there's no rhyme or reason to anything and anything is possible at any time.
Nicole Kelly:I think that's good advice. Angela Lansbury was the guest speaker at my graduation and her advice was expect the unexpected, because you never know, kind of where you're going to end up.
Josh Lamon:Yeah, you know, I'd say that is the hardest thing about show business. I this is going to sound dark and you know, maybe, know, maybe, maybe it is. But it's sort of similar to like being addicted to a drug. You're chasing a high constantly and, um, you could be so low and then all of a sudden nickelodeon calls and they want to see you for a cartoon, and then you're like on top of the world again and then so low. You know, like it's just, there are so many highs and lows to this.
Nicole Kelly:I think that a lot of actors also deal with mental health issues.
Josh Lamon:Yes, me too.
Nicole Kelly:Well, you have to be crazy to want to do this.
Josh Lamon:A little bit Because it's so unpredictable.
Nicole Kelly:But yeah, it is very much like a drug, because being on stage is a high and then when a show ends, it's like that deep depression, I don't know. I love that kind of comparison. I want to jump back to something you mentioned earlier about going to Israel for your bar mitzvah. I want to talk about what? Because, again, we're going to be two-episoding this. So I want to talk about what that experience was like and if you've been back since and if you'd want to go back.
Josh Lamon:Oh, I'd love to go back.
Nicole Kelly:Maybe not today.
Josh Lamon:Maybe not at this moment, but I would love to go back. It was very special, also very unique, being that young and I was never very spiritual, especially back then and all of a sudden you're there and it's just. I remember experiencing emotions that I still can't describe, where, like you're not spiritual, but then all of a sudden, you just are. You just feel a presence that you can't fully comprehend, even as a Jew, like I remember the 12 Stations of Christ I think it's called where you're walking his final journey or whatever.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, I've heard about this.
Josh Lamon:I remember watching other people that were clearly Christian or Catholic or whatever. Watching other people that were clearly Christian or Catholic or whatever, like really going through something and how much it moved me and being like, no matter what religion you are, what you believe, even it all happened here. There's something I mean like, even if you, the closest thing that I could imagine is if people have gone to rome you know when you're there and you're like oh wow, like I had that feeling.
Nicole Kelly:When I was in the coliseum I was like, first of all, it's way smaller than you think it's way smaller. But but then you know, I remember we we took like a private tour of the coliseum and palatine hill and the. Uh, the guide was like in the year 80 and I'm like what? Yeah, in the year 80.
Josh Lamon:And I'm like what, yeah, in the year 80? It's bonkers, and then you're there. Yeah, it's incredible.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, we were also in a car and they're like that's where Caesar was killed and I'm like what Isn't it, bonkers? Yeah, it's crazy to be in these places that are just so old and millions upon millions of people have walked where you've walked.
Josh Lamon:Yeah, it's where everything started. It's where our religion started. It's the cause of great celebration, great grief, great, everything it's. I would love, love, love to go back. We were also lucky. We did a tour of the entire country. We got to stay in kibbutzes and nice hotels. It was also a scary time. It was when a lot of you know the bombings were happening, like suicide bombings and stuff, and I remember we took a bus once and being terrified, being like I don't want to be on this bus, but it was just so magnificent and I wish, I wish, and I know I appreciated it back then, but I wish I could go now so I could really appreciate it as an adult rather than as a teenager.
Nicole Kelly:You know, that's something that's so funny. I feel that we've had some roles that I've had too, that I feel like, oh, I bring something so different to this now that I've had life experience it's. It's kind of the same thing with uh, with israel. Did you read at the wailing wall? Because I know people will go and they'll have, like they'll have their bar mitzvah there we had ours.
Josh Lamon:I might be wrong. I want to say it was on mount sinai, okay, um, but we did go to the wailing wall. I know I put uh prayers on there, probably about being on Broadway or something.
Nicole Kelly:Well, it worked. It worked girl.
Josh Lamon:Yeah, it worked. Just go to the Wailing Wall, get your wish.
Nicole Kelly:That's my problem.
Josh Lamon:I haven't gone to the Wailing Wall. That's why I've got to be on Broadway. Yeah, exactly.
Nicole Kelly:Welcome to the Wailing Wall. What's your dream? Very different movie. Pretty Balabusta yes, very different movie.
Josh Lamon:Yeah, so I think that answered the question.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh Lamon:One of my favorite experiences was Into the Woods in Central Park with Shakespeare in the Park. It was epic and it was really strange too. I auditioned for the role of the steward and the director, timothy Sheeter from London, I think, was fascinated with me. I was so strange and weird. I was wearing this silver brooch with cats on it and he was like can you come closer? And what are you wearing? And I was like it's a brooch. And he was like and then it was the weekend. I asked my agents if they got feedback. My agents were like I don't think this is going your way, sorry, and I sat Shiva for the job over the weekend.
Josh Lamon:And then Monday I had an offer but there's something magical Granted that production. It had like a four story set. The stage was mulch, we were in central park when it rained, you were being rained on and then you were performing in mud and um and doing Sondheim, which is not easy.
Nicole Kelly:For those of you that are not familiar, Sondheim is like the Shakespeare of musical theater.
Josh Lamon:It's the highest echelon, the highest Andon the highest, and it's complicated, and also like you would have raccoons fighting on stage while you're doing scenes.
Nicole Kelly:Okay, they are rebuilding the Delacorte, but I have heard that raccoons will take up residence in the Delacorte and it's like a big problem.
Josh Lamon:Yeah, during the song Agony, one night night two raccoons got into a fight on the stage. A fight, um, you know so I always called it like you know, like into the woods, was like broadway survivor, you know it was. It was really intense but and also it would be miserable. You're performing in a rainstorm, it's 80 plus degrees, you're dehydrated, you're like. Now I have to run up four flights of stairs and sing, you know. But then you're sitting in the wings and sondheim is standing next to you crying and you're happy tears and you're watching.
Josh Lamon:Donna murphy, my goddess, my friend, my love. Nobody does it better. Belting out the song the last midnight while there's a full moon behind her, wind is going crazy and there's rain and a storm and she's the witch. And I mean, when does that happen? That is magical. That is theater like you will never experience and those people that did they will never see anything like it again.
Josh Lamon:That to me is like some of my favorite, favorite, favorite moments in my career and in just seeing theater. Also just like the memories of standing next to, to stevie's downtime, while he's like crying, watching his show, like and you know, and I don't want to make people think that I was close to steven because I wasn't. We just did that show together. And to prove that point, years later I did a um, a theater was honoring him and I was asked to perform and sing Not While I'm Around and I did it. And then after the show I was like Steve hi, josh, we did Into the Woods together and he was much older at this point and just looked at me and he was so tired and he was like, if you say so, you know, like highs and lows folks, highs and lows.
Nicole Kelly:It can be glamorous and then not glamorous. Have you done like Jewish shows, like Fiddler. I know you just did the Jerusalem Syndrome.
Josh Lamon:I did the Jerusalem Syndrome, which I wasn't able to see, but. No, no, in high school I was Tevye in Fiddler my sophomore year and I was wonderful. You brought all thatler my sophomore year and um.
Nicole Kelly:I was wonderful you brought all that life experience as a 15 year old.
Josh Lamon:Yeah, exactly um, yeah, as a closeted Tevye. Um yeah, no. Oddly enough, it's like it's a dream of mine to be in Fiddler and nobody will see me for it, which I mean is fine. But yeah, no, I can't. I don't think I've ever played anybody that was necessarily Jewish. Yeah, but I would love to. I would love that.
Nicole Kelly:All right. So these last questions are kind of short form questions, done like the actor studio, so you can pretend I'm James Lipton and you're on the show. Okay, so what is your favorite Yiddish word?
Josh Lamon:It's for like a woman, that's like an incredible, like babble, oh gosh, oh, I know this. I know this. Why is it A balabusta? A balabusta?
Nicole Kelly:I'm not familiar with that. What does that mean?
Josh Lamon:It's like you, nicole. You came here. Your home's beautiful, you're a great hostess. I got a beautiful mug of nice cold water. You're a balabusta, and then the other ones obviously, like schmuck and schlep and all that kind of stuff. What I love about Yiddish is it reminds me of Italian. It's so performative.
Nicole Kelly:Like it's.
Josh Lamon:You know it's like. It's like dancing when you're saying it, like I had to schlep over here Even not knowing what that means. You know what that means.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, I love Yiddish for the same reason. What is your favorite Jewish holiday?
Josh Lamon:Um, hmm, I don't know. Maybe Purim I love to dress up. Yom Kippur always scared the daylights out of me when I was a kid, Like hearing the rabbi be like some by fire, some by water, being like oh my God, this is a horror film. Please don't kill me.
Nicole Kelly:You know, you should, speaking of israel, you should go to tel aviv for purim. I hear it's like a big dance party, but there's also like a big gay scene in tel aviv well, what's rad about my mom?
Josh Lamon:I was obsessed with punky brewster when I was a kid yes, and millennials.
Josh Lamon:Yeah, and I, I went as punky brewster to our temple purim carnival at like maybe second grade, and my mom was like, like, looking back as a being, like, oh, that was like the early 80s. And for my mom to be that like, yeah, you can go as punky brewster, I don't care and nobody made a big deal out of it, I was just punky brewster, I didn't want to be king of hushwares, like a wig with, like a wig with, like the pigtails, I think no, I had like long enough hair that my sister made pink pigtails and we sprayed it black, you know.
Nicole Kelly:If you were to have a bar mitzvah today, what would the theme of your party be?
Josh Lamon:Something ridiculous. It would be something so absurd it wouldn't be Broadway, I don't know, maybe like a Schitt's Creek kind of thing, or, or, like, or like even folks that more like a night of 1000 Moiras, you know, it would be so out of control and absurd and campy and ridiculous yeah.
Nicole Kelly:What profession other than your own would you want to attempt?
Josh Lamon:I love the idea of being a therapist. I also really love teaching. I've been teaching a lot and it fills me up in a way that theater did when I was 18 and just starting out. I love that and if I had like a random dream job I'd want to work in, probably criminal psychology or forensics. I am a little true crime obsessed and I would love to work in that, or I love the idea of it. I don't know the reality of it, you know, but like solving crimes and locking up bad guys.
Nicole Kelly:If heaven is real and God is there to welcome you, what would you like to hear them say?
Josh Lamon:Hey queen. I don't know I would like a hug. I would like to see my childhood dog and all my loved ones who have gone before me.
Nicole Kelly:Is there anything else you want to talk about or plug?
Josh Lamon:I know we talked about not wanting to do self-promotion, but the only other thing I guess that I do is I'm a member of this really fun musical improv team.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, I saw you posting about this.
Josh Lamon:Talk about what that is, it's called Schitt's Probe and basically in theater there's something called a Schitt's Probe where you you.
Nicole Kelly:It's not about you. It's not about the actors nope, it's uh the.
Josh Lamon:The performers and the orchestra rehearse together for the first time and it's a really magical experience. So we're called schitt's probe and it's some of new york's best uh improvisers. And we take a Broadway or TV icon that doesn't necessarily do improv and we make them the star of an improvised musical. Everything is improvised lyrics, dances, dialogue. We have a band that are also improvising as we go along and it's so much fun. So I'm obviously taking a break during Death Becomes Her, but it performs twice a month in New York at the Asylum and it's definitely worth checking out if you're in the city, and I guess you know.
Josh Lamon:I do want to emphasize that, though it may seem like, when we're talking about show business and the experience of it, that it is negative, it is also quite joyful and there is a lot of love here. It is very difficult, but it is also very rewarding and very beautiful, and so if you're somebody who loves art in any shape or form, I thank you and continue loving art, continue sharing art and also, like if you love theater or want to be a part of it, but don't want to go for it professionally, I just want you to know that. That is so okay. That is wonderful. There are so many ways like to be an artist and no matter what you do in your life, nobody can take away that you are an artist, period, yeah.
Nicole Kelly:Well, on that note, thank you so much for joining me, josh. This is Nicole Kelly, and this has been she Brewing the City, so I hope you enjoyed the second half of that episode. So I have a small request from all of you. I know you're listening out there, but I don't know who you are. Please follow me on Instagram, send me a DM comment on my photos, follow me on my baby TikTok account, which has less than a hundred followers, and be sure to subscribe to my Patreon. We have some merch coming. I also am going to be participating in a giveaway the week before Hanukkah with some of my past and future guests, so be sure to follow me on Instagram and keep a lookout for that.
