Shebrew in the City
Shebrew in the City is a podcast exploring all things Jewish. Combining interviews and informational episodes, join Nicole Kelly as she discusses her journey with motherhood, spirituality, and everything from Hanukkah to the Holocaust. Giving a voice to modern Jews and spreading love and joy, whether you're Jewish, Jew-ish, or not anything resembling Jewish at all, there's something here for everyone.
Shebrew in the City
"Poppin' Bottles" - An Interview with Pam Wiznitzer
As your host at Shebrew in the City, I, Nicole Kelly, had the pleasure of sitting down with the vibrant Pam Wiznitzer, master mixologist and social media maven. Our heartfelt conversation soared from the intricacies of Jewish traditions and their influence on Pam's passion for mixology, to the shared laughter over our first drinks. Revel in the stories of our personal journeys - from navigating conservative upbringing to embracing the artistry of the cocktail, and the meaningful connections fostered with patrons across the bar.
This episode isn't just about drinks; it's a toast to the resilience and innovation of women in the bartending industry. Pam and I unpack the sometimes bittersweet cocktail of challenges and triumphs she's faced and share how these experiences have stirred her ambition to mentor the next generation of female mixologists. Get a taste of culture as we discuss iconic events like Oktoberfest, Cinco de Mayo, and even Santa-con and how she blends the flavors of her Jewish heritage into every shake and stir of her creations.
Lastly, join us as we pour creativity into crafting cocktails that do more than just quench thirst - they tell a story, evoke memories, and celebrate identity. Whether you fancy turning your hand to home mixology or just enjoy a good yarn over a well-crafted drink, this episode promises to shake up your day. Pam shares a glimpse of her passion aimed at combating hate, while hints at possible new ventures beyond the world of mixology. So, grab your favorite glass, and let's raise a toast to journeys shared and stories yet to be told. Cheers!
TopDogTours is your walking tour company. Available in New York, Philly, Boston, & Toronto!
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Hi, this is Nicole Kelly and this Shebrew in the City. If you like what you hear and want to hear more of it, you can subscribe and also follow me on Shebrew in the City to see what my life is like day to day. I'm also on Patreon if you'd like to have access to some special episodes and offers. Looking for tips and tricks on a new city, Top Dog Tours is the best place to check out walking tours. We are in Boston, Philadelphia, Toronto and New York City. Visit us on topdogtours. com to book your tour today and check us out on social media for offers, discounts and pictures. Hi, this Shebrew in the City. I'm Nicole Kelly and today I'm talking with Pam Wiznitzer, who is a master mixologist and Instagram influencer. She's laughing. Hi, pam, how are you doing today?
Pam Wiznitzer:I'm good. How are you doing?
Nicole Kelly:I'm good. Like I said, I'm tired, but that's kind of part of the course. I feel like that's just my answer every day. I'm always tired. I think I was born tired.
Pam Wiznitzer:That's completely fair, and it is a Monday morning so you are allowed to be tired.
Nicole Kelly:It is, hanukkah is coming up. I know we're going to be releasing these all over the place, but it is the Monday before Hanukkah and we have lots of events, so I'm sure that's part of the reason I'm just emotionally exhausted from that, yeah, absolutely.
Pam Wiznitzer:It's a big week I got to get ready for those eight crazy nights.
Nicole Kelly:At least I know when it is. My mom, I guess, googled when Hanukkah was and for some reason didn't look at the year that came up and she thought it was starting later because it starts later next year. So she was a little stressed about having to get all my daughter's presents together and shipping them and everything. Oh, no, yeah, that Jewish calendar just doesn't like to keep put this year, I think it starts on Christmas Eve, it ends in January, which I don't think it's ever been in January in my entire life.
Pam Wiznitzer:So I don't know. If it so, my Bat Mitzvah was December 28th of the year of no. No, no, no, no, no.
Nicole Kelly:Yes, yes.
Pam Wiznitzer:But it was the fifth day of Hanukkah, so that year I could get ended on the 31st. Okay, so my 30th, so that's the closest I can remember call, but that was, you know. Obviously that's ingrained in my head.
Nicole Kelly:I you know the year thing I was called my mom last night because I was doing math is next, in March of 2024 will be the 25th anniversary of my Bat Mitzvah. Wow. So I was like, I was like I gotta do like a special episode about Bat Mitzvahs because of my my big anniversary, so let's go ahead and get started talking about you. So, pam, where are you originally from and how did you end up in New York City?
Pam Wiznitzer:So I was born in New York. I was born in Queens, but I didn't stay there. When I was just about two and a half years old we moved to Cleveland, Ohio. So I grew up in Shaker Heights. A lot of people recognize it from that book Little Fires Everywhere. Have you ever done that before? Yeah, so that's the semester. And then I came back to New York for college. I went to Barnard College and the Jewish Theological Seminary. I did the dual degree program because I thought it was totally normal for an 18 year old to be having like seven to eight classes a semester. But I found out later that wasn't true. It's a lot of school work, it's a lot of school. But I was like, yeah, double bang for your buck, Two degrees for the same price. So what's better than a good, than a good bargain?
Nicole Kelly:How was that as far as like your actual social life, or being able to even do anything, taking that many classes?
Pam Wiznitzer:I didn't know any different. So I had a very robust social life. I was out all the time. I just I thought it was normal. I had no idea my other friends just at Barnard or Columbia were taking four classes a semester. So that really blew my mind. Senior year I was like, wow, this is different.
Nicole Kelly:That's a very, that's a very full load. So what was it like growing up Jewish in Ohio and what was your Jewish upbringing like in general?
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, I think a lot of people are not aware of how robust the Jewish community is in Ohio. I was talking about this with somebody yesterday and because someone was like, oh Cleveland, there must be like a small Jewish population and I was like no, it's totally the opposite. At one point when I was younger, cleveland was the fourth highest donating Federation, you know, just to give you an idea across the country. So I grew up in a suburb that was really diverse but, I'm grateful for it.
Pam Wiznitzer:But we were surrounded by other suburbs that were very enriched with Jewish, jewish culture, jewish community, like right next to ours. So I don't know I was. I was in this wonderful bubble of the conservative movement. I'm pretty much your poster child. So someone's like what's the conservative movement? Look like It'd be like me on a poster with like my hand up saying hi, I'm from the conservative movement.
Pam Wiznitzer:I I went to like synagogue every weekend. I was like kid in front singing in Kelohenu at the end of the Bima. I did USY and Kadima. I like had leader, massive leadership positions within there. I went to camp for mom. I went to Barnard and JTS like anything that is associated with the conservative movement I did it. So, yeah, you know, we kept Shabbat in my house every week was really beautiful. It's how I learned how to cook. I would like make Shabbat meals at a certain age and my mom will let me take over and do that. And Judaism was just really. You know, I went to Jewish J school until eighth grade. Then I wanted to go to public school. So it was really a very much infused. It's like in the core of my soul. That's like how I, how I know the world. I know the world through a Jewish lens and I think that's really beautiful.
Nicole Kelly:Would you still consider yourself conservative? Do you belong to a synagogue here in the city?
Pam Wiznitzer:It's so funny because I do consider myself conservative, although I don't practice in the same ways. I don't belong to a synagogue. I think I find a lot of people who are not married or with families around our ages don't really belong where, but I do love going to programming and holidays at a certain place synagogue. I really love what the rabbis do over there, I love the programming they're they're so welcoming and I spend all my high holidays there. So that's been really that's. That's been a really lovely community to be a part of here in New York.
Nicole Kelly:I think you're really right. It is kind of hard to find like a home base. There are a lot of twenties and thirties young people programming all over the city but a lot of it's tailored to like families in the family unit. We didn't join a synagogue until we had a daughter because it's easier to do your own thing when you're just an adult, but when there's a kid it changes.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, and I think we're making better efforts to creating opportunities for adults who are between like twenties to thirties and early forties, if you don't have a family. To be a part of that and there's definitely wonderful organizations like MGE, I think, does a really fabulous job. There's a lot of really cool like that. There's a center down in Tribeca that is cool programming. But you know, I think a lot of things change when you have a family. They date a lot of things. That's a life cycle of mine.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, I definitely. The episode we just released was kind of like my interview and talking about how just even finding my way back to Judaism in general was a thing that happened when I had my daughter, so it makes a lot of sense. So how did you get involved in the hospitality industry?
Pam Wiznitzer:When I was at Barnard and JTS, I actually was signed up to take the Columbia Bartending Academy course and it's just this course that teaches you the basics of bartending, and back then it was not as robust as it is now and if you place at the top of it you can then get jobs like bartending around the city, like small jobs, like pouring wine and beer at places. So I took the course just for fun, because my friends taught it. I didn't think anything of it. This was the year 2006. Oh my gosh, sorry I didn't mean to give dates, but here we are and it's fine.
Nicole Kelly:That's the year I met my husband. So, we're not judging how long things ago are good.
Pam Wiznitzer:Great and I did it just for fun and I really loved it. I latched onto it pretty quickly but I think at that time I was in college, we were all drinking, so it was fun to know how to make a French martini. When I, in the recession of a way don't know nine, I lost my job and I was trying to find some quick employment and a few of my friends knew a manager at a bar and they're like hey, you could bartend if you want on the side, and because I knew how to, and I was like OK. So here's like, here I come out in this world with like two degrees from two like really wonderful universities and I like already had some a year and a half of like corporate work under my belt and I go into daytime bartending and my parents were just I don't want to say they were living, but they were pretty shocked.
Pam Wiznitzer:You know, and I think the other big part is that in the Jewish world we we see a lot of people who cook. We don't see a lot of people who work in Booze unless it's on like the managerial sides of it red, or owning only liquor brand or work for a liquor company. You don't really see a lot of people bartending or being owning bars. That's not really been in. That's not really in the roll of decks of the careers that we use.
Nicole Kelly:Dr. Lawyer, teacher Dr.
Pam Wiznitzer:Lawyer bartender. Yeah bartender yeah, so I always joke that my mom would go to synagogue and they'd be like asking how everyone's kids are. It's like David doing great in medical school, it's like Sarah's loving law school and they're like how's Pam at the bar and my mom's like over here, a little bit like such a shawnda right, Like a shame you know it's funny that you say that, because my great grandmother, who lived in Ohio, actually owned a nightclub and bar.
Nicole Kelly:So this was this was in the 30s and it was actually in a black neighborhood so they catered to a lot of the black community. So it was very it was kind of crazy and my great aunt has stories of sleeping in like the front window the police would make sure everything was kosher and stuff. So she comes from a long line of that. Her mother actually owned a tea room in Russia and my great grandmother would smuggle alcohol on the train so that the tea room had liquor. So there are at least a few Jews who were involved with owning bars.
Pam Wiznitzer:We absolutely do have like a very dynamic and rich background in history of owning, of owning venues. You know, it's just like over the years we've things have changed. Yes, for a lot I'd say and so that was really fun. You know, I laugh a lot as to where I was then and about how I came about into this. But I just started daytime bartending and I kind of put partly that into a bigger career in mixology and beverage consumption. Consumer engagement here we are today.
Nicole Kelly:Daytime bartending is very different, I would assume, than nighttime bartending, especially depending on the neighborhood that you're in.
Pam Wiznitzer:It is. But what people forget about daytime bartending is it's really about the care and consideration of the people who sit with you, because a lot of them are there for lunch, lunch with a drink or early drinks after work and they want to talk. So for me, it was this really incredible experience of meeting people and providing ultimate hospitality, especially because we were like next to a cancer hospital. We were in an area with a lot of like constructions. We had a lot of construction people, so we had like a really beautifully diverse range of individuals who would come into our bar and sometimes I really kind of felt like I was Sarah with the angels and I was just like here to like make sure you're like. You know you're doing well here. I'm going to like serve you, make sure you're feeling great when you walk out the door because you get more time, which is really unique.
Nicole Kelly:That makes a lot of sense, which leads me to another question I had. I was going to ask a little bit later, but you kind of already talked about it. You know a lot of people sit behind a bar just literally to have someone to talk to you. Why do you think that people traditionally feel really comfortable opening up to bartenders?
Pam Wiznitzer:Well, I think it completely depends on the bartender, that's. This is a great question. A few reasons, I think you know. Depending on the person, alcohol can create a sense of ease for some people. So for those who need a little bit of liquid, liquid courage, that can kind of open up the pathway If you have a really great bartender. A bartender doesn't only want to just give you a drink, they want to make sure you're having an experience, and so it's very genuine and we're energy readers, right.
Pam Wiznitzer:So we see how you come in. If you're feeling like you have a big load on you, if you have less stress, like we're here to deescalate that, we're here to you know, make sure that we turn that around before you leave. So when you earn some of these trusts, they want to open up to you immediately. And also a lot of people who come to the bar especially like they're not hours a day sit solo. There are not always like two people coming together. When you sit solo, you're kind of looking for any experience to interact with another person. So when you give them an inch, they might take like a few more inches or a mile if you let them. So I think that is the. Those are the biggest components as to why you'll find people opening up to bartenders.
Nicole Kelly:So you're working as a daytime bartender at this point Did you start experimenting creating cocktails, or did that come later?
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, so initially I was just your Vakasota Bud Light Girl that was not really good at serving us quickly, but there was this really incredible wave of mixology starting to happen. I feel like a lot of people remember, in like the oh eight to 2012, we had this what we call like the second golden age of cocktails that, over surgeons, where people were using fresh juice and fresh, fresh ingredients. There was a lot of innovation happening. So when the big speakeasy movement started and I remember I remember being very interested in all of it so I would bring in my own ingredients to the sports bar and I would make these cocktails and I get in a lot of trouble because no other bartender could recreate them, but I was. I was having so much fun because I could do things on my own time.
Pam Wiznitzer:And I remember seeing this amazing magazine article in Time Out New York where they were like the best bartenders in New York and I just remember seeing on the cover all these men and one woman her name is Megan Dorman. She's a friend of mine now and I thought it was so atrocious that only one woman was on there and I said there's no way, there's only one woman, no way. They just probably didn't do their due diligence and I also looked at the picture and I was like I could get in there, I could do that, like if they can all do it, I can do it. So that was kind of the catalyst that that lit a fire under me to to start studying and learning and getting involved in that that area of the hospitality world.
Nicole Kelly:Why do you think that at least back then I can't speak for now it was such a male dominated field or male forward facing field?
Pam Wiznitzer:So many reasons. Number one is that a lot of the women who worked in bars worked at high volume clubs and bars Like basically like burn and churny, make a lot of cash really easily, right? So they weren't working at like speak easy bars. There were actually a ton of women who were, but we love to showcase the men. We love to like ignore the women and showcase. So there were really really brilliant women like my friend, natasha David or Aaron Reese were definitely the four from my friend like Lynette Marrero. They were all out there but they were being completely overlooked. I think the other part about it that we still don't speak about it even to this day is that if a woman wants to go ahead and start a family, being pregnant and being behind a bar people do it. But it gets hard at some point and when you have the child it's all about like, do you have enough childcare?
Nicole Kelly:kit.
Pam Wiznitzer:Can you actually work along bar shifts anymore? So a lot of people transition from being a bartender into bar owner, a manager. So that's why maybe you would see during that time less women there and also we've beefed up security. I think it's the other part to have, like a woman closed down a bar Work the latest shift. You need to make sure that that place is very secure. I hadn't even thought about that, but that makes complete sense.
Nicole Kelly:Do you find, have you found within your career that there were challenges you faced as a female bartender and mixologist?
Pam Wiznitzer:When I started, I was in my 20s and so I think my biggest difficulty wasn't just the fact that it was a room of men, but it was a room of older people who didn't want to take me seriously.
Pam Wiznitzer:So I would like be butting my elbows into a space with people in their like 30s, 40s, 50s and they, half the time, wouldn't give me the time a day or wouldn't take me seriously, which was unfortunate. I had not found as much as many issues with men in the industry. In fact, like a lot of men have been in a family supportive of my career, a lot of men have been my mentors. I've always been a guys girl, so maybe that's a little bit of a challenge. I've always been a guys girl, so maybe that's also a different part of it. But my biggest thing is in getting into spaces. I just wanted to ensure that I threw that rope back for more women to then come into the space. So if you can wiggle yourself into a little bit, you can throw that rope back and then start bringing everybody else in with you.
Nicole Kelly:So I love that analogy.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, yeah. So at least for me it was, it was, it was okay. I mean, there was this meme boys club at one point, but I turned it on them.
Nicole Kelly:I love that you kind of came in and created a space for yourself and, like you said, kind of left space for women to kind of come in behind you. So you have a master's degree in food studies, which I did not think was a thing, but makes complete sense now that I know it's a thing. So what inspired you to go back to school and get your degree? Did you have to write a thesis? What type of classes do you take for a degree like this?
Pam Wiznitzer:So NYU has the leading program in food studies, undergraduate and graduate level, and it was 2011. And I I wanted to take bartending and mixology very seriously and I thought for to show my parents that the only way I could earn their trust was by going back to school.
Nicole Kelly:Which is very Jewish.
Pam Wiznitzer:It's so Jewish I'm, so many levels are like I gotta prove it to you. You know it's, it is, it's like the ultimate, like Jewish guilt, right? Yes, so I, yeah. That's why I applied to the program, cause I also wanted it for myself. I wanted, like I wanted, to show people it wasn't just an interest or a hobby in this, it wasn't just a career, but it was academics and education and I wanted that backbone. So I went into the program and I did a focus on beverages and for my thesis, I actually spent the summer of 2014 driving all across America because I wanted to learn how and why people drink in different parts and regions of the country. What's being offered? Yeah, so I had a road trip that was about almost three months long, 40 cities. It was a wild experience I've never driven the country before which I suggest every person in this world should do. America is truly beautiful. We don't know it.
Nicole Kelly:I've never done it. My husband's done it twice. Oh my God, it's great. He had to bring furniture across the country and then a car, and he's gone the northern route and the southern route. So, and I can't, I don't like being in a car for more than like six or seven hours, being from LA, and his family was in the Bay Area. We do like up and down California a lot, but I kind of hit a wall, so I feel like I'd need to make a lot of stops if I ever drove across the country.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, and actually if you did that like six, seven hours, it's kind of like max per day. Trust me, I pushed it some days to eight or nine, but you can do it, anyone can do it, and I just highly suggest it. You learn so much, not just about yourself but like about other parts of this country and the people in the communities. And I wanted to understand that because, coming from New York, which is most of my life in Anonsi Ohio, I haven't I spent time in some other cities, but not significant time, and I wanted to really see things differently.
Nicole Kelly:Is there a place that you found that people drink drastically differently than you know here, or Ohio or other major cities like Los Angeles or Chicago?
Pam Wiznitzer:I wouldn't say anybody drinks drastically differently Now. Remember this was nine years ago, so a lot has obviously shifted the country. But what is telling is that it's the age ranges of who's drinking, what they're consuming and the rate at which the rate of consumption. But there's a lot of other factors that come into play, including is there a mass transportation available in those cities, you know, because the driving culture and then also it's gonna affect things. I found that careers like the top careers and industries also affect how people are drinking and demographics of age. So it was truly fascinating. But there's some really cool spots around the country, like I went to Boise, idaho, that has a huge Basque community and Basque cuisine which I had no idea about, and he had phenomenal cocktail bars. So that was pretty rad. I would have never gone there otherwise.
Nicole Kelly:It's so interesting you talk about transportation because I'm originally from LA but we moved to New York before Uber and lived to a thing. So when we first came to New York, first of all the idea of bar hopping is not really a thing in LA. You kind of plant yourself and you're like, because you don't wanna get in a car you couldn't drive. So when we moved here, it's like, oh, we're gonna go to like four different bars in one night, like what is you know? You go down to the village and kind of just go around to places. So that was weird.
Nicole Kelly:Also, like the idea of buying rounds became. It was like really a thing here where it's like well, I'll buy it this bar and then you buy it that bar, whereas in LA, at least when I was younger, it was like we all paid for our own drinks. And then going back to LA after we have now like Uber and Lyft, it's changed so much. I remember there was one Halloween when we were in college we wanted to go down to West Hollywood for the parade and we couldn't find a cab. Like we were calling cab companies. So like it's so interesting, you know, I guess it makes complete sense that transportation would play a huge part in you know drinking culture and how much people are drinking and where they're drinking in the proximity to where they have to get to. That's so interesting.
Pam Wiznitzer:Was there yeah, absolutely.
Nicole Kelly:Was there a place that you maybe not that people were drinking so differently, but like a very unique drinking culture somewhere in the United States?
Pam Wiznitzer:A unique drinking culture? That's a fabulous question. I mean I definitely like in parts of Texas. I mean, you know, that's obviously like Margarita land. It's very it was more agave focused than anywhere else before Tequila and mezcal like really sprung up around the world and that has everything to do with, obviously, the Mexican border, but they've always been at the forefront of like Mexican flavors and cuisines and so I mean, while the Margarita has nothing to do, honestly, if Mexico was an American invention.
Nicole Kelly:I didn't know that. Oh my gosh, when was the Margarita invented and where?
Pam Wiznitzer:The Margarita. They don't know the exact date but they do know that because agave spirits, I think, came into America around like the 1950s and nobody really know what to do with it. What was big at the time? People were making side cars with cognac. So someone's like okay, normally cognac is a some simple syrup, lemon juice and cognac. So if I kind of change it out and I use Tequila, they will do like lime and they use like a triple sec or sugar. They made that drink and Margarita means daisy, so they called it a daisy, because a daisy is the category of sour drinks. That's what we call sour drinks. They're called daisies so naturally because Margarita is sour and it takes the shape of a sour, sour drink. That's the name. So that's where it came. They came out of America, clearly, because they drink more like Palomas down in Mexico than they do Margaritas.
Nicole Kelly:I think that's so American that we're like this thing that we're passing off is from another culture but was really created like here. Kind of this inspiration from, maybe, immigration and kind of creating something.
Pam Wiznitzer:Don't even get me started on Cinco de Mayo, like we don't have to go there on this podcast.
Nicole Kelly:Cinco de Mayo.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, it is 100% American driven. It was created by beer companies to sell more beer. They only celebrated in Puebla and all of Mexico. We should not be celebrating it here in the United States unless you have a community of people who are from Puebla that wanna do it and you celebrate with them.
Nicole Kelly:It's kind of how I feel about Oktoberfest. We visited Munich and we went to the Hofbrahaus and a lot of other breweries and they're like we hate Oktoberfest. It's a bunch of drunk American tourists and someone we had an employee from Germany that was like if you wanna go to a beer festival, a lot of the smaller towns in Bavaria are better than Oktoberfest. So, and also like-. Leave it to America to ruin everything, of course, like that's what we're gonna have.
Nicole Kelly:Drinking, it's fine. We also have the best holiday in New York City, santa Con, which, if you're not from New York City, santa Con is a holiday where the bridge and tunnel people those are the people who have to take bridges and tunnels into the city they dress up like Santa and they start drinking at like 9 am and just they're on the trains and they're running around the city being obnoxious, and I usually try not to work that day because it's literally the worst day in New York City. Have you for bartended on Santa?
Pam Wiznitzer:Con. Okay, so a few things about Santa Con. When Santa Con was first started, it was only a handful of a few hundred people and I know this because I was there during the very beginning, before Time Out. New York covered it because I had friends who went and the idea was people who came together. You would like carol in the streets for people. You would bring food. That would go to like a hunger drive.
Nicole Kelly:So it was actually like a nice thing to start with.
Pam Wiznitzer:Totally was nice and the idea was just like a few hundred people and it was to give an influx of money during the daytime shifts to bars. So they would, and you were supposed, and they would kind of give heads up to the bars ahead of time saying like we're gonna bring these people. And there was like all these rules, like don't be a dick, you know, be nice, and that was the idea, like we would all take a picture together somewhere. Then the young people, really like super, found out about it and it all got ruined. I turn into what it is now, but of course that's very normal.
Pam Wiznitzer:So, yes, I had partaken in Santa Con when I was really, really young. There's pictures of it, some people found them and they still make fun of me today. I have bartended during Santa Con. I think, at the end of the day, when it comes to this and, by the way, this is not just in New York, this is in other cities when you see Santa Con, just run the other direction or keep yourself safe and if you happen to be in a bar where anything like that hits, just always look at your staff and just ask them say are you okay? Do you need anything, you know, that's the best that we can do.
Nicole Kelly:I'm obsessed with the fact that this started out as like a charity thing and kind of became the worst day in New York City, which is saying a lot, cause New Yorkers were kind of just like I hope not. I think it's the ninth. I'm not leaving the Upper West Side then?
Pam Wiznitzer:I'll be at about Mitzvah in Omaha, so I'm gonna. So you're good, so you're good, you're good, I just.
Nicole Kelly:Thank goodness, I'm obsessed with that. It used to be something like quaint and adorable and it became kind of crazy. Do you have a favorite cocktail to make? I know you started out. You started out making a lot of vodka sodas, as you said. Like, as time went on, was there a cocktail that became your favorite to make? Is it a cocktail you created?
Pam Wiznitzer:I, when anybody asks me this question, I always say and it's not even a blanket statement, it just is true Like my favorite cocktail to make is the one that the guest wants and the one that makes them happy, because there's nothing, there's really nothing better than someone sitting at your bar and talking through what they might want, making them something based upon their, their parameters and desires, and then you put in front of them and they have this big, huge grin on their face Cause they just feel like so special in that moment that you actually listened to them or gave them something that they liked. So those are my favorite, those are my favorite moments and I think that's like honestly, I think that's one of the best parts of bartending in general.
Nicole Kelly:I love that you keep bringing up hospitality. As an actor, I worked in restaurants for years and there was one concept Do you remember Blue Water Grill in Union Square? So I worked there for RIP Blue Water Grill.
Pam Wiznitzer:That building is still empty too, by the way.
Nicole Kelly:There's nothing there. It's kind of crazy. So they talked a lot about what they called second level service, kind of going above and beyond, and I love that you keep bringing this up because I think for a lot of people we've all been to restaurants where it's just like this is clearly just a job and people almost seem to be hating their lives a little bit. But I love going to restaurants where people are providing that hospitality and really doing something extra to take care of somebody. I think it's amazing when people make this like a legitimate career and they're the idea of hospitality and that second level service. I love that you keep bringing that up.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, I just it's very easy for any job to be a job. It's very easy and I'm not here saying that, like when you work in hospitality, especially service oriented positions that you have to go above, above, above and beyond, because there could be a level of like abusiveness that can happen between guest exchanges if something's taken, taken advantage of or out of context or if you feel like you have to do something because you're doing it for a tip, that's a whole other conversation.
Pam Wiznitzer:However, I love people. I really love people. I've always loved people since I was a little girl and I think the part about hospitality that I enjoy the most is the opportunity to make someone's day just with a little bit of kindness, Because if someone could have the worst day in the world, come into your bar restaurant, you just offer a smile and a little bit of kindness and it can change everything. And it doesn't take much. Kindness is free.
Nicole Kelly:That is. I love that. I'm going to put that out of bumper sticker. Kindness is free. I think we need a little more kindness, especially with everything that's going on right now. Oh yeah. It's a crazy time, so your favorite cocktail to make is whatever would make someone put a smile on their face. Do you have a favorite cocktail to drink?
Pam Wiznitzer:I am a situational drinker, so drink based upon where I am, which is great. I don't ever really navigate towards one thing or another. But if I had to round out a list of top faves, I'd say it could be like a Negroni, a 50-50 gin, martini, meaning it's like half removed, half gin, which is great, and you can have more of those because you're not going to wind up on the floor as easily. I really love grasshoppers, which is like this creamy mint drink. You kind of can only have one of them, but they're worth it. And this tropical drink that's called a jungle bird, that a lot of people don't know about, that is absolutely divine.
Nicole Kelly:When you're off the clock, is there a specific bar or restaurant you like to visit to go for a cocktail?
Pam Wiznitzer:When I'm off the clock. I wouldn't say that there's one place that I'd like to go to. I think there are definitely certain bars and neighborhoods that if I'm ever around that area, I like to pop in, even if it's just to say hi to the staff. I sometimes like to do that, but I don't have a cheers moment. You know what I mean.
Pam Wiznitzer:I don't have a place. That is just my cheers, because I do like to what I call distributing the wealth. I like to ensure that, if I have a dollar, that I am very conscious of where that dollar is going to go, and is it worth going to the same place over and over. Is there a new place that just opened that you can support? Get to know the people, especially within your neighborhood. Is it woman owned? Is it minority owned? There's a lot of opportunity to invest our dollars in really phenomenal ways.
Nicole Kelly:So you've worked at a lot of different concepts. Is there a bar or restaurant that really stands out to you in terms of a good experience working there, or a great ambiance, or some really great ownership?
Pam Wiznitzer:I. There was a bar that was on the Upper East Side. It's no longer around. It was called Steam Stress. It was open for about three and a half years and it's funny because so many people still to this day come up to me and like they'll see me randomly and they're like we really missed that bar, or I think about that bar all the time. And it really was. It really was. It was such a big moment for the Upper East Side because we didn't have a cocktail experience up here and so it was kind of like one of the first cocktail, like really high-end cocktail bars, and it was really comfortable and wonderful.
Pam Wiznitzer:And I love the bar program and our staff. There was about like two or three iterations of our team and our staff, like we just really were a cohesive unit and it just. You have to be careful about using the terms family, because not everybody attributes to working in staff as family and that can be a little dangerous, especially as people of different relationships with family dynamics. We all felt we were like a family unit in some ways and we're all still very close. We have a text thread that's like five years strong that we all we're everyone's highly successful now doing different jobs, but there was something really special about that. I've met a lot of people who were like our first date was at Seamstress or we got engaged at Seamstress or all these really hysterical stories that even to this day I get from random people, which is great or DMs in my Instagram inbox.
Nicole Kelly:Why do you think the Upper East Side doesn't have a lot of concepts like that?
Pam Wiznitzer:The Upper East Side has changed drastically in the past 10 years, even the past five years, and we do now. Now we actually have like a decent amount of like really good cocktail bars, I think you know, as the second avenue is that way opened as we had an influx and change of who was living in this area, we finally were able to get a lot of really interesting venues, restaurants, businesses to start opening up here. So now I'd say I'm really proud, like we were not the East Village or the West Village like with that high amount of concentration of bars or restaurants, but we do have a lot of our own, and so if you wanted to just stay here and like not go downtown, you'd be very happy and that makes me really proud to be able to see concepting like that.
Nicole Kelly:Do you? Are you also a wine drinker, or do you stick strictly to cocktails and spirits?
Pam Wiznitzer:I love wine. I love wine so much and I have a lot of friends who are sommeliers, so it's a very privileged position to be in, to be surrounded by some of the most brilliant wines, and I've been fortunate to go to lots of wineries to meet the wine makers themselves around the world. I think wine is such like a beautiful process and a really beautiful industry and I think it's changed drastically in the past 10 years. And, you see, wine feels cool. You see, you still feel really stuffy and now there are so many people that are changing that stereotype. So it's much more accessible, it's younger, it's fun. So I'm very grateful for that change of I'm a wine drinker.
Nicole Kelly:I'm not really a cocktail and spirits person because I like sweet stuff and a lot of people kind of stray away from sweet cocktails, so there aren't always a lot of options. My husband is a cocktail drinker. He experiments with making cocktails. He loves drinking cocktails. We have the hugest. We have the hugest personal bar because he's a member of a liquor club. So he gets with this membership a lot of bottles and tasters so it looks like we have a literal full bar in our apartment. It's kind of crazy.
Pam Wiznitzer:I get it. I have over 700 bottles in my apartment because it's essentially my work area.
Nicole Kelly:Where do you keep all of that? In a New York apartment.
Pam Wiznitzer:I've got three rocks wire racks that are just full of alcohol in one wall in my apartment? Yeah, but it's my office, yeah, so I pull from that when I'm experimenting or working on any concepts for clients.
Nicole Kelly:No, that makes me intense.
Pam Wiznitzer:Some people have file folders. I have wine bottles and like Beards bottles.
Nicole Kelly:I think wine bottles and spirit bottles are much more fun than having a filing cabinet like I have sitting right next to me. That's just different. Speaking of wine being fun and things changing, do you think American palettes are becoming better or different over time and if so, why do you think that is?
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, the American palette has definitely shifted over the past 15 years. The biggest change that we've seen is the American palette gravitating towards bitterness as a flavor, which is something that's very keen in Europe, especially, obviously, the Italian areas, and that has a lot to do with travel, as America has become pretty obsessed with travel and exploration and obviously the younger generation it's at the forefront of their favorite pastimes. Yeah, people spend.
Nicole Kelly:It goes like household things and then experiences.
Pam Wiznitzer:As far as spending, yeah, and it's great because what it's doing is it's diversifying the portfolio of things that we're eating and consuming here in America. We're having more global access, so bitterness is a really fascinating flavor because, while everything else we are kind of born with sour, sweet, umami, savory, salty bitterness is learned. You're not born liking bitter things. You actually train your palate to like it. So when you taste something that's bitter when you're younger or even like mid-20s or something you may not like it and you're like this is gross because you actually have to keep going back at it in order to start understanding it and train your palate to like it.
Pam Wiznitzer:So that's why a lot of people, when they have an amaro or something like Campari or a negroni, they don't like it initially, but after a few times you start craving it because you develop bitterness. So that's been something that's very fascinating here in America. Obviously, the apral spritz is a great example of that.
Nicole Kelly:My husband's shaking his head.
Pam Wiznitzer:yes, yeah right, he's like this will make sense. And then we also are getting drier palates. Now this depends where you live. In America there are definitely places that still skew towards sweeter profiles, but a lot of places that used to be like more sugary and more sweet drinks Like now you see drinks that people want things that are more sour, drier, less sugar and a lot of has to do with also the health and wellness movement of how people are eating. So as you change your eating habits and what your body craves, that will change up what you desire also for what you're drinking. So if you are cutting out more sugar, you're not going to want to crave that in your drink and you're going to want to crave other flavors.
Nicole Kelly:Interesting.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, and also we're seeing less drinking and that's also really amazing. The low proof, no proof movement is pretty strong with these days.
Nicole Kelly:So you talked about having all these bottles in your apartment to create new cocktails. Can you walk me through the process of what you need to do to create a new cocktail and how long that takes and what goes into all of that?
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, firstly, there's really no such thing as a new cocktail, because everything follows the same format. There's like six formats of cocktails and from there you kind of make changes and tweaks so you can't ever say like this is brand new, original. But the most important thing is understanding and identifying the main flavor that you want to highlight. So I often start with an ingredient or a flavor or a concept or sometimes a color, and then I walk my way around that I love the color thing because I'm such a visual person and the way a drink looks I'll never forget.
Nicole Kelly:This is a little off topic. I don't remember where we were. We were somewhere in the West Village because I wanted to go somewhere for my birthday and there was a cocktail place, or no, no, it was going back. So there was a tea place and they also had cocktails and there was glitter in the cocktail my husband ordered like literal glitter, and we were finding glitter on him for four days, which never put glitter. Please don't ever put glitter in a cocktail. Because, first of all, it arrived and we were like what is this?
Pam Wiznitzer:You can, but you have to put a tiny amount. It was not a tiny amount of glitter it was not a little bit.
Nicole Kelly:So I love this because I'm such a visual People love fads.
Pam Wiznitzer:That was a big fad a few years ago.
Nicole Kelly:Was it really?
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, it was a big fad about like four or five years ago. It started where that edible glitter could be put in drinks. But people do it in the wrong capacities or they make it overwhelming.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, it was a little too much glitter, but I love that you say you're like I start with color, because I think that you have very strong reactions to certain the way certain things look, so I love that. That's kind of like a base sometimes.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, aesthetics are a huge selling point in a drink, because half the time people will be in a bar and be like what's that? I want that? They don't even care what's in it, but you eat with your eyes.
Pam Wiznitzer:First you always eat with their eyes. That's why we love food television, because, even though we're never going to eat the thing that's on there, we can experience it in the same capacity and believe we can smell it just because of what we see, which is fascinating. So, yeah, so I always start with that and then I work my way around flavor profiles and things that work together. I love using the book. If people don't own it at home, I highly suggest getting it called the flavor Bible. You can buy things for anyone who cooks, anybody who likes to make drinks. It is fabulous Because what it does is it dissects the main ingredient that you're looking at and then every ingredient that correlates with it, then the ones that are the strongest, and then ones that are like a secondary, and then you can start creating what I call triangles of flavor, because when you can get three flavors that link up together and work in a drink, you'll have a much more dynamic flavor profile.
Nicole Kelly:So this is what you get when you get a master's in food studies you get very scientific Because it is it's science, like creating food and baking and cocktails is chemistry. I think there's that show right now with Brie Larson where it's something like chemistry and she's like a chef.
Pam Wiznitzer:I watched the whole. Thing. Was it good I watched the whole thing Absolutely fabulous. I love the lessons in chemistry and I love it. And I also love it because it relates and correlates to a lot of beverage making, because we do use science all the time and it's ironic because science was my worst grade.
Pam Wiznitzer:It's cool and I use it all the time, and I also use science as a way to explain how drinks come together. I teach a lot of cocktail classes and I always go back to elements of math and physics and other components of science, because that's what it is.
Nicole Kelly:So you ever tell your parents this is a very Jewish thing, it's very scientific.
Pam Wiznitzer:It's yeah. I always go back to my parents. My parents are very proud of me. I need to put that forward. My parents are so proud of me, they're so proud of my career. They love to brag about me and Shul they talked to other friends about it. It's very different now, but I feel so fortunate for their love and support, as I took a very different pathway.
Pam Wiznitzer:That obviously was very scary, but they believed in me and I wanted to show them that I could live up to their expectations of what they would have for me.
Nicole Kelly:Are your parents big drinkers? Did you grow up with them trying cocktails and having alcohol in the house?
Pam Wiznitzer:I had no alcohol in the house.
Nicole Kelly:My parents are like that too, really.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, we had this liquor cabinet. That was just where my dad was entertaining fellow doctors. They would sometimes have little clubs that came over. We had no alcohol. The most we had was my uncles would get together and have kiddish on Saturdays For those who don't know after synagogue. Sometimes you make kiddush, and kiddush is the prayer over the wine, or you would have a little schnapps or something and they call it kiddish, kiddish club, so my uncles would get together and they would drink crown royal.
Pam Wiznitzer:So that's what I remember most as a kid, and also any of the leftover purple bags we would get to put our toys in for synagogue. So there's something really nostalgic about it. When I see purple bags I'm like, oh, it's a toy bag for synagogue.
Nicole Kelly:Yeah, I mean, my parents weren't big drinkers either, so it never really had direction as far as what I wanted to try. Which leads me to my next question. If someone just turned 21 and they're interested in trying cocktails, what would be your advice to them?
Pam Wiznitzer:I love this question, mazel, on turning 21.
Nicole Kelly:Especially because you said that your taste change. I feel like that's how I felt about beer. I used to hate beer and now I'm a huge beer connoisseur and I love beer.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah. So if you turn 21 and you're gonna start having drinks, I think the best thing to do is to sit at a bar and have like maybe two, three rounds, like it's so good to start slow, and I would get one thing that's stirred, one thing that's shaken. So shaken is probably gonna be something that has citrus in it, so you're gonna get like a sour salad drink. You're gonna get a more spirit forward drink, so you can kind of see the difference. And then I would get something like completely like off the wall that's on the menu. Maybe it's something teaking and tropical, maybe it's something creamy, maybe it's something like smoked and also using, having like different alcohols in them, and that can kind of get your palate to understand what you gravitate towards, naturally.
Nicole Kelly:What was your first drink when you turned 21?
Pam Wiznitzer:Oh, you only want to hear my 21 first drink, or do you want to hear the first thing I've ever drank? No, we can do both.
Nicole Kelly:We can do both. My first drink ever was a what is that? The? Oh my God it you had like a smirnoff, yes. So my first drink was like a raspberry smirnoff ice. Well done. So I am a classy chick and I was not 21. And I can't get in trouble for that now. I think I was 18. It was. So I don't remember what my first like legal drink was, but I started off by drinking with a raspberry smirnoff ice.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, I actually happened to know my first legal drink because I, since my birthday is during winter break, I was at home and I had gotten in a fight with my parents, and so the morning after my birthday I stole the car keys and I left a note and said went to Columbus and also to see grandma. Don't call me, be back in three days.
Nicole Kelly:Oh.
Pam Wiznitzer:Probably like most devious thing I've ever really done. And I was with my friends in Columbus. We went to this bar called Brothers and the first thing we did was had. I think we ordered some drinks but we got around to shots and we got purple Hooters, which are disgusting, but I don't. I totally remember that and we got purple Hooters. But my first thing I ever drank, which is I have such like a Prussian, like Madeleine, moment with it. I'm very nostalgic for all the time when I was very, very young, maybe like third, fourth grade my parents let me have a little bit of wine at Shabbat dinner and it was Ketem's Plum Royale wine. Very sweet, very sweet. They still have it. But there's something in like Japanese culture called Ume Shu, which is a plum like plum liqueur wine distillate and it's the exact same thing and I crave it all the time.
Nicole Kelly:That's so funny. I know someone whose dad worked for Ketem and I believe he had his Bar Mitzvah on a Sunday because they wanted to make sure that the bosses, like the head of Ketem, could come, so like they didn't even want them like doing anything on Saturday night. So it was actually a party on a Sunday and we drank their grape juice on Shabbat at my house. I have like very like cause that's what they'd serve like at Hebrew school, so it's very nostalgic for me. The grape juice.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, so fun fact and this maybe this is like a good takeaway for, like, if you want one last hot tidbit for making cocktails at home to make a syrup, all you have to do is take a liquid, equal parts of that with sugar and mix it together at room temperature. You don't have to heat it up. One of my favorite, favorite, favorite hacks in making drinks I always have like a concord grape drink somewhere on my menu was using Ketem's Concord Grape as the base and I would make a syrup with a heavy syrup and it is phenomenal, especially if you wanted to make whiskey sourced but use like a grape syrup instead. It is divine.
Pam Wiznitzer:So, if you ever wanted a nice hack to make some great drinks at home, Ketem Concord Grape.
Nicole Kelly:So, talking about, you know, home bars and people drinking at home, what would be some of the staples you'd suggest to someone who was looking to create a home bar, who's interested in entertaining, who's interested in maybe experimenting with cocktails themselves, what would be kind of the things that they should get to start their home bar?
Pam Wiznitzer:Fabulous. So if you're gonna start a home bar, you need really good tools. So don't just buy any tool set that you see. Get ones that are really functional, like if you get one of those has a jigger that has a handle, that's not useful. So I got a lot of tools from either Barfly or Cocktail Kingdom. Those are really good companies and they're not that expensive. You can also find great full, complete bartending tool kits on Amazon.
Pam Wiznitzer:I suggest getting a tin on tin shaker, not like the Boston one, like the really tin on tin.
Pam Wiznitzer:They're easier to open, you can hold more drink in there. And then when you're starting your own bar cart, have one of each bottle as a staple that you wouldn't a well. So vodka, a gin, a tequila, a rum and a whiskey Whisky I would suggest bourbon or rye and then also grab yourself a bottle of scotch just to have, if you want, for cocktails or to serve to people, and then from there and also a bottle of triple suck, and good triple suck, like Cumbier, cointreau, not like the really sugary stuff that has no proof level. And then from there you can make a lot of drinks. And please use fresh lemon and lime, squeeze it yourself, don't use the stuff in the plastic bottles that has preservatives, and it'll make all the difference. So that's enough of a staple to begin with. And remember, you don't have to spend a millions of dollars on the bottles that you're going to mix with and I have to always stress that and your drinks are only as good as your tools.
Nicole Kelly:What would be your advice to someone who's interested in making mixology a career?
Pam Wiznitzer:I think, for what mixology this applies to. Mixology, like any career that you wanna have, is if you're going to do something and you see longevity within the space, apply yourself. Don't just phone it in Like it's so easy to go to the work, your desk and then go home. I highly suggest get involved another way start learning about your community. If there are like seminars and conferences, head there, go to networking events, throw yourself into the rooms. I could extend your hand and tell people who you are, because the more that you can get involved, the more people are gonna know your name, the more opportunity that comes around. And especially when it comes to like mixology, it's just constantly be on like the cusp of learning and of what's happening within the scene and just be a good person. No one likes a, no one likes a occur budget. Honestly, just be a really nice, good person and make space for others. There's room for everyone at the table. There's opportunity for everyone, and when you look out for the other people, they look out for you too.
Nicole Kelly:In the past, you've created cocktails that were inspired by your Jewish heritage. Is this something that you suggested, or is this brought to you as an idea? How has that come about? I think?
Pam Wiznitzer:in a lot of ways I've always infused little bits of my Judaism into my drinks. But I just remember one week we were sitting in synagogue and I was visiting my parents at home and in the parasha that week they were talking about a grouping of fruits that they had found and I remember reading about it and I was like, well, that sounds like it could be really good in a cocktail. I remember saying next to my mom and I said that she goes what I was like, that sounds like it'd be great in a cocktail. So I did, I went and I made a drink with that and I was like, oh, this is delicious.
Pam Wiznitzer:So I have found there's so much inspiration because let's get to the core of Judaism right, like our holidays are about celebrating because we survived something or it's a year and we eat right, and there's a lot of flavors in the forefront, symbolic foods, significant bites. You can infuse all that into drinks. They're the same staple flavors that work really nicely into beverages. So I try to do that. Like I've made complete liquid Seder plates that I've served at Passover Seder's. You know, obviously, when Russia Shana comes around, I love making drinks that I have apple, honey and pomegranate and then to be shot is just like ripe and ready for like so many fabulous drinks, including like olive oil. And then and I think that that's where the creativity and fun comes into beverages Cause it's such an easy way to give a wow factor to any meal that you're doing, sometimes with like minimal work, and that's really the true hospitality behind cocktails it's creating this incredible, memorable experience that doesn't have to be so laborious on your end.
Nicole Kelly:So you are speaking of being Jewish. You're very outspoken about your pride in being Jewish on your online platforms. Why do you think this is so important, especially with everything that's going on right now?
Pam Wiznitzer:I I've always been like a proud Jewish person, especially a proud Jewish woman, even since I was little. The theme of my butt miss a Wisconsinica Like.
Nicole Kelly:I'm sorry, we're gonna come back to that.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, I know, I know I think it's just been at the core, the core of how I live my life. It's like how I treat other people, the lessons that I learned, the morals and values that I run by, operate by, and so especially in the past, I'd say in my life, specifically in the past like six, seven years, it's really come to the forefront of who I am in my work, cause I think for a while, especially getting involved in the hospitality community, I put my Judaism on the back burner in order for to get career advancement. I didn't observe some holidays because big things were happening on them. I didn't stand up for myself and speak out about it, and I sometimes often say that I'm having like my big Sandy Kofax moment.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, yeah yeah, because I like I no longer will allow people to do value the importance of Judaism and our holidays and our significance of our time. And I just think, as global jewelry is undergoing this huge wave of like, anti-semitism and fear, it's so important that, if you have the ability to have a voice and to speak up and you feel comfortable doing so, that you do so. And so for me personally, of all things Judaism related, fighting anti-Semitism is at the core of my work, because I'm unafraid to say that I'm Jewish. I wear a Jewish star, like every day, and I'm very proud of what Judaism represents for myself and to so many other people, so I just put the two together. So I'm like the Jewish bartender, I'm like one of a few. There's a few of us that are very outspokenly Jewish, and so it's nice because we kind of like all find each other.
Nicole Kelly:So I wanna go back to your bat mitzvah. You said your bat mitzvah took place over Hanukkah and the theme was Hanukkah. What was that? Tell me everything I wanna know.
Pam Wiznitzer:I'm seeing if I can find you a picture of it because it's just that funny, but I'm not sure if I can.
Nicole Kelly:So the theme of our event. Find one and post it on Instagram, like for Hanukkah.
Pam Wiznitzer:I want you to do that. I always do so. Everybody else had these themes like Amy under the stars at Broadway, or like Rachel and New York City, the Big Apple, and like David and the NBA.
Pam Wiznitzer:And my mom my bat mitzvah was on the fifth day of Hanukkah. I am born on December 27th, so no one's ever been around for my birthday. It's always around Hanukkah time. When you're a Hanukkah baby, kind of like, a lot of you are listening, can sympathize and empathize with me, because if you're born on Hanukkah you're like, ah, the presence wasn't you, like it all got compounded together. But my mom and dad said to me like really remind me to. Like don't forget, bar and Buttman says are about becoming a woman, it's about God and it's about you know the next step. So my mom's like well, it's during Hanukkah, we should just have Hanukkah. And I was like come on Hanukkah, but because my brother my brother had my brother's team was, he was president's day weekend, so he did like White House and presidents was he's.
Nicole Kelly:That's gonna be in the book. That's going in the book.
Pam Wiznitzer:So mine was Hanukkah and I remember I had that's like massive dreidel that you can sign when you came in. But I actually, like I love it now. Think about it, I'm obsessed with that Also, I really okay. So I desperately wanted like Terry MacLone was the name of the DJ that everybody had and I like went to all these bar but I went to over 100 bar buttons. Okay, like I was that kid and I want him so bad and my mom's like this is about being Jewish. We're booking the Yiddish Cup Klezmer Band. So I had a Klezmer Band. I had a Klezmer Band. My bum is it was during brunch time and and then the theme was Hanukkah. So I think this like really sums me up very well as a person, but I actually am so grateful thinking about it now in hindsight.
Pam Wiznitzer:I don't know. I was just an event with Susan Alexandra, who's this amazing designer jewelry, bag and stuff. She has a Judaica line. She just did a Hanukkah party which she debuted her menorahs and there was a comedian there and he's like what was everyone's theme for their bar and band? And people started yelling it out and I go, the guy was like wait, why? So I'm pretty grateful though, because it's my favorite day.
Nicole Kelly:You know what's really funny is I had a daytime party and my mom's MO was always kind of like no one sits around and talks about their bar but Midsfahs. I'd rather save the money and spend it on your wedding, but I feel like all I've been doing is talking about people with their bar and bar Midsfah themes and I'm kind of obsessed with it because it's different than a wedding, because you can really go like full on theme and I think it says a lot about like you was a person and where you were at at the time, depending on some people, like the theme is just Jewish, like I talked to one of the two, a rabbi, who was like we didn't have shoes, a trench, like we didn't have a theme. You know it was just like bar Midsfah, but name it's fo was the theme.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, it's wild. And also the Adam Sandler movie that just came out like resonated super hard with me and I was visiting home.
Nicole Kelly:When we watched that my mom, my sister and I and that scene where Adina Menzel and the younger daughter are arguing about what she's going to wear with my mom and my sister because we were also conservative, so you had to cover your shoulders on the beema and my sister was like I don't want to wear this. Like little suit outfit that was very popular in the 90s, so it was very. I felt very. We felt very seen, we felt very.
Pam Wiznitzer:Oh my God, me too. I actually went home and I found my Bump Midsfah outfit and I tried it on. I was like this still fits. Wait, should I be taking this back with me? This is iconic.
Nicole Kelly:I was a size like double zero at my Bump, midsfah, so it would fit maybe on my arm. I was like I looks like a Q tip. I was like super thin and had very big hair.
Pam Wiznitzer:Oh, I had already gone through that phase. So like I, my body had like already like kind of changed the whole bunch. So you know, but I I can't wait for for this next part of your podcast, like you're going to have a whole other one that comes out just discussing barb.
Nicole Kelly:I feel like a lot of people would love to talk about their barb. So you co-authored a book with thea James. Can you tell me about how that came about and what the process of writing the book was like? And I my husband doesn't my husband doesn't know about this book and I think he's going to nerd out a little bit when you explain what it is.
Pam Wiznitzer:It's a great Hanukkah present because it costs $18.
Nicole Kelly:Oh very auspicious.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, so the book is called drinking with wizards and dragons. It is a fantasy oriented cocktail book. So fair James is a Hugo award winning author. She is one of the like the foremost authorities in everything fantasy and a bit of sci-fi, so she's written lots of other books before she did one about cooking like cooking with dragons and wizards so they wanted one about cocktails. They and I share a mutual best friend. Her name is Leah Doyle and Leah heard they.
Pam Wiznitzer:I was like I need a mixologist who would kind of like get nerdy and want to do this with me, and we was like you should meet Pam because she's really nerdy when it comes to dissecting drinks. So this was a really fun collaboration. They like laid out all of these like books and what she wanted done and I knew I knew a good portion of them. So some of the drinks are. Some of the drinks are things you've seen before, like a martini, but I really want to make sure we had staples in there plus new drinks and I wanted classics and new ones. But you know like I really like my butterbeer recipe personally. This was such a fun, a fun task and also most of the drinks can be made non-alcoholic through using non-alcoholic distillates and non-alcoholic beers and wine. So if you've ever wanted to put mead in a drink, if you've ever wanted to like kind of think about, like the Sandman and like all of his associated, like siblings, and like what they would be having, this is the book for you.
Nicole Kelly:If you could bring a drink from any sort of fandom into reality, would it be that butterbeer or would it be something else?
Pam Wiznitzer:I mean, I think butterbeer is super fun. There's something called Gigglewater that is around and Gigglewater actually there was some form that existed around like in the 1920s. We're not entirely sure what was in it. There's like posters for it. But you know, that would be fun to like kind of bring back like full time and figure out like what it completely is. But I think there are so many flavors and foods and things that you see in these books, so it's really fun to bring it to life. My personal favorite was making things for the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. So we took like I took the Turkish delight and turned it into a drink for me. That was exciting because that was one like the first fantasy-esque books I read. As a kid I also tried to look for Narnia through the back of my closet at night times after my parents made a bed and I never found it?
Nicole Kelly:Never found it, no, never so weird, but it never happened. So is there anything else that you want to talk about or, I guess, plug any. You know concepts you're working on. We talked about your book.
Pam Wiznitzer:Yeah, I mean I have. I have some things in the works which I can't fully discuss right now, but I would say, like, stay tuned, like follow my Instagram, a lot of the things that I do. If I put on my Instagram and I know that, like, in the past few months, there's been a bit of a pause of cocktail content and creation, as I've used this time to be more spoken about anti-Semitism and also some things that have happened in my personal community around Islamphobia, anti-muslim hate. So I care so much about the well-being of our communities. So I know that I will be getting back to more heavy cocktail content, but there are some things in the works. There's, you know, some really cool projects I'll be attaching myself to in the next year and then 2024. And, more than anything, I just I really want people to drink well. I want everyone to be sipping something delightful.
Nicole Kelly:Well, with the holidays coming up, I'm hoping a lot of people will be imbibing in a responsible and fun way, absolutely responsibly. So this next section. These are short form questions, done in the style of the Actors Studio, so they don't need to be long answers. What is your favorite Yiddish word?
Pam Wiznitzer:My favorite Yiddish word is Fakhaka.
Nicole Kelly:That's a good one. What is your favorite Jewish holiday? My?
Pam Wiznitzer:favorite Jewish holiday is Hanukkah.
Nicole Kelly:If you were to have a Batmitsva today, what would the theme be? I'd keep Hanukkah, hanukkah.
Pam Wiznitzer:I kind of love it and it would be around the time my birthday anyway. So like I love this holiday, I love everything about it and I except I would have more latkes and sufganiyod than I did at my Batmitsva and I would like I do some Hanukkah related like games and things. I would lean in hard into the theme.
Nicole Kelly:What profession other than your own would you want to attempt?
Pam Wiznitzer:If I wasn't a mixologist. Right now, and I think just because I actually recently met him in New York, I'm so interested in the position of public advocate in our local government. I just met Jemaine Williams and I think the idea of relating and speaking to the community and the people is really incredible and fascinating and empowering, so I would probably try to go that avenue.
Nicole Kelly:If heaven is real and God is there to welcome you, what would you like to hear them say?
Pam Wiznitzer:It's me, Alanis Morse.
Nicole Kelly:That is a very fun pointed reference. I hope people understand that. If they don't, I got it.
Pam Wiznitzer:I got it so.
Nicole Kelly:I appreciated it. I'm sure at least you know a couple other people will, if not just Google Alanis Morse at God and you can watch a very fun movie. Well, thank you so much for joining me. If you're interested in learning more, you can follow Pam on Instagram and she's got some great information about Judaism and cocktails. Thank you so much for joining me.
Pam Wiznitzer:Thank you so much and happy holidays and thanks for having me.
Nicole Kelly:Like that you just heard, subscribe and you can make sure that you don't miss any of our episodes. You can check out our Patreon, where you'll have access to special episodes and offers, and I'm also on Shebrew at in the City if you want to follow along with my everyday life.
